What Is Real?

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Daeruin
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Joined: 15 Dec 2013, 20:56
Location: Utah

Re: What Is Real?

Post by Daeruin » 27 Feb 2014, 21:15

hope wrote:Yesterday I began reading recent threads and my mind is officially blown. I thought I was making 'progress' in my faith journey... and now I wonder what is real?
This is one of the dangers of this forum and one of the blessings as well, depending on your point of view. When I first started visiting this forum, my wife was concerned that I would encounter ideas or points of view that would prevent me from making "progress"—defined in her terms as coming to a strong conviction of the literal truth of the Church. And I have come across things that I didn't know before (the Kinderhoek plates, for one). Yet I have come to feel that a belief or an idea isn't worth having if it can't be challenged. If I have faith that isn't rooted well, that will come crumbling down the moment I find out about X (replace X with whatever is challenging you right now), I don't see the value in that faith.
Curtis wrote:Losing certainty can be scary - but I believe it also is the only path to rediscovering pure faith. Another central Gospel paradox.
As Curtis points out, doubt is also the precursor to true faith—defined in my terms as hoping and/or believing in something that you cannot know or prove with 100% certainty.
Roadrunner wrote:It's taken a lot of mental effort to convince myself that I can interpret doctrine as I see fit.
I find this challenging as well. In terms of the temple recommend interview, I strongly believe that the man asking the questions, and the men who wrote the questions, expect that when I say yes, I believe in God, that I believe in a literal, physical God. I know some believe that the questions are meant to be vague and open to interpretation, but I feel that's just a rationalization. Anyway, that's another topic that I think I'll open later. I don't meant to get this one off on a tangent.
"Not all those who wander are lost" —Tolkien

hope
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Joined: 24 May 2013, 09:08

Re: What Is Real?

Post by hope » 28 Feb 2014, 05:57

I want to thank you all for your thoughts, personal experiences, and ideas. Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out to me through your heartfelt words. What an amazing group of friends. :wave:

I keep reading and rereading each of your comments. It's as if you are part of this huge jigsaw puzzle I am putting together and I don't know what the final picture or scene looks like. I am warming up to the idea that it really is okay that I don't know what it all looks like anymore, and that anything is really possible. Anything! I think that is part of the mind blowing experience for me. :smile:

My faith journey officially began in May 2013 when I was working on a school project with my 13 year old son. I think the seeds had been planted long before then, but they began sprouting at that time. I reside in the midst of a forest now. :D And it feels REALLY good. The latest mind blowing realization comes on the heels of many others. I want to laugh and cry in the same breath, and sometimes I want to hide under the covers and cry. Mostly though I feel SO happy for this unexpected journey. I haven't always felt this way and 'it wasn't always mine' (a favorite phrase from the movie, The Book Thief). The 'it' I am referring to is this journey. But now it is my journey and I completely own it and am embracing it fully.

I feel so free. I feel as if I am stepping out of a black & white movie into a world of color I never before knew existed. :D

Roadrunner
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Re: What Is Real?

Post by Roadrunner » 28 Feb 2014, 10:45

Daeruin wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:It's taken a lot of mental effort to convince myself that I can interpret doctrine as I see fit.
I find this challenging as well. In terms of the temple recommend interview, I strongly believe that the man asking the questions, and the men who wrote the questions, expect that when I say yes, I believe in God, that I believe in a literal, physical God. ... Anyway, that's another topic that I think I'll open later. I don't meant to get this one off on a tangent.
Hello Daeruin,
Like you I don't want to hijack this thread because I think it has a lot of nice sentiments to it. I just want to explain my comment a bit more. Perhaps "as I see fit" comes across as too arbitrary - a statement like "as I feel is right" would more accurately express my thoughts. I think it's not only our right, but also our responsibility, to act according to what we think is right, regardless of what our church leaders say. As far as the temple recommend questions go, currently I'm in a calling in which I issue temple recommends. I don't want to be the middle man between the interviewee and the Lord. For me, if that person can answer the questions and feel good about their answers then I feel I should issue a recommend. If they ask me questions, we discuss and see where it takes us, but in the end I can't put myself in the position of expecting only TBM answers - otherwise no recommend.

Hope,
I really appreciate your heartfelt comments. This journey can be difficult but I firmly believe can be very rewarding. Your post makes we wish we could be our own little real ward.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: What Is Real?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 Feb 2014, 11:02

What is "real" about the temple recommend questions (as in objective, not as in "real to that person") is the actual wording of the questions themselves. Everything else, including how the interviewer and interviewee interpret the questions, is constructed around and outside the reality of the actual questions. Thus, I answer according to how I understand the question and don't give a flying fig if that is different than how the interviewer understands the questions. Anything else is inauthentic to me - and the interview is about me, not the person conducting it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Forgotten_Charity
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Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 18:33

Re: What Is Real?

Post by Forgotten_Charity » 28 Feb 2014, 11:14

hope wrote:I want to thank you all for your thoughts, personal experiences, and ideas. Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out to me through your heartfelt words. What an amazing group of friends. :wave:

I keep reading and rereading each of your comments. It's as if you are part of this huge jigsaw puzzle I am putting together and I don't know what the final picture or scene looks like. I am warming up to the idea that it really is okay that I don't know what it all looks like anymore, and that anything is really possible. Anything! I think that is part of the mind blowing experience for me. :smile:

My faith journey officially began in May 2013 when I was working on a school project with my 13 year old son. I think the seeds had been planted long before then, but they began sprouting at that time. I reside in the midst of a forest now. :D And it feels REALLY good. The latest mind blowing realization comes on the heels of many others. I want to laugh and cry in the same breath, and sometimes I want to hide under the covers and cry. Mostly though I feel SO happy for this unexpected journey. I haven't always felt this way and 'it wasn't always mine' (a favorite phrase from the movie, The Book Thief). The 'it' I am referring to is this journey. But now it is my journey and I completely own it and am embracing it fully.

I feel so free. I feel as if I am stepping out of a black & white movie into a world of color I never before knew existed. :D
Some of those quotes were my own thoughts as well. For all my life I was told what to do, how to think and what it think and when. It was odd being a fully grown adult and not knowing who I was or what i really wanted. But it felt good to finally be able to explore a world of infinite possibilities I could choose from and follow. It was liked my mind was tapped into a one way thinking and running in circles and all of a sudden I was finally off the nascar track. I was on the open road exploring all of gods mysteries and creations and inspirations. Not just pre-approved material with a ore approved life chart set in hardcore mode.

I stayed though, I find much good and I love the people with all my heart. I just needed to get away from dogma so I could mentally breath and figure out who I was.

You have the opportunity to figure out who you really are and what you really want. It might be the same thing or something different, but you can own it for yourself. You can be yourself. It's not a easy journey to do that but it has been worth while for many.
Most people here are not here to tell you what to believe. Just to help you find what it is you are looking for.

That's why I really like the people here. They give you room to breath and help. I hope you find it safe and non stressful and helpful here too. I think this place is a good fit for you if you are seeking(non of us have all or even most of the answers) and looking for love, hope and good fruit. Happy your doing better today. Take care. :smile:

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opentofreedom
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 09:36

Re: What Is Real?

Post by opentofreedom » 28 Feb 2014, 12:14

hope wrote:
I feel so free. I feel as if I am stepping out of a black & white movie into a world of color I never before knew existed. :D
Welcome! I am so glad you found us. I am glad you are finding the support helpful.
Yep, have you seen PleasantVille? And didn't someone mention the Matrix. I feel that I am also viewing the world in color for the first time and enjoying thoughts that once scared me. I feel like I am able and free to use my entire brain and not have it be stunted in anyway. That sounds harsh, but that is how I personally feel. That is the way seeing in black and white effected me. I took EVERYTHING literally. I spent an entire weekend in fetal position crying as if someone had died. (That someone was me..., my child like beliefs and faith). I still go in and out of the grieving process. This group has been a tremendous support.

I feel the same way, and so many of the responses resonated with me as if they were my own writings. I don't have much to add b/c they seemed to cover what I would say.
Namaste: the divine light in me honors the divine light in you.

“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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wayfarer
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Re: What Is Real?

Post by wayfarer » 02 Mar 2014, 13:44

hope wrote:...The latest mind blowing realization comes on the heels of many others. I want to laugh and cry in the same breath, and sometimes I want to hide under the covers and cry. Mostly though I feel SO happy for this unexpected journey. I haven't always felt this way and 'it wasn't always mine' (a favorite phrase from the movie, The Book Thief). The 'it' I am referring to is this journey. But now it is my journey and I completely own it and am embracing it fully.

I feel so free. I feel as if I am stepping out of a black & white movie into a world of color I never before knew existed. :D
welcome to the middle way. some say that it is a temporary place, but i have been wayfaring for many years, and i love it.
isaiah 35:8, 10 wrote: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

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SamBee
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Re: What Is Real?

Post by SamBee » 02 Mar 2014, 18:11

Philosophically speaking the existence of NOTHING can be proven. Therefore arguably nothing is real, and perhaps illusion. That's the premise of The Matrix and much oriental religion.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Ann
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Re: What Is Real?

Post by Ann » 02 Mar 2014, 19:49

hope wrote:

I know when I listen to certain music or am out in nature or feel & express love, I am moved to tears and feel a massive tug on my heart strings.
Hi, hope - Glad you're here, and I just want to say that music has proved to be rock and refuge for me.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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