A Suicide

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Forgotten_Charity
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Re: A Suicide

Post by Forgotten_Charity » 20 Feb 2014, 10:44

I usually don't comment on things like this because it's to close to home for me. Having said that I do have a lot of experience with therapist and suicide victims and attempts in this area.

Largely, most attempts are by people who really don't want to. Various environmental conditions and actions by others typically go unresolved for awhile, plies for help tend to go largely ignored or minimized. After a period of time there is a threshold(varies by person). In a last ditch effort for a cry for help they com tinplate suicide in a last ditch cry for help.
That is far from compromising every situation or individual. But it covers a good portion.

For me personally, I struggle to live in such a authoritative, aggressive, dogmatic, black and white thinking world. At least places I grew up or put myself into. Why I continue to find or place myself into cultures that turn a blind eye or encourage it is something I struggle to understand. Low self-eteme? A challenge? Make the world a better place complex? Others? Maybe a combination? At the moment the church is the only place I allow myself to attend or place myself into. Stress and anxieties mount. Before you can rehearse them or cope with them, you find yourself in another situation further building on the stress and anxiety, thus mounting continually. Something will give. Some people stop caring, others blow up or become aggressive toward others, others focus inwardly at themselves. I fall into the latter. As a coping mechanism I do a lot of voluntary work with victims of domestic violence, rape, or emotional abuse. Because I am apparently to weak and passive to say anything as I experience or watch events unfold. I keep it all in.

I think a lot would help as I learn to be more assertive and express outwardly in a positive manner. Trouble is even if you do that in many cultures it's seen as a threat.
I guess the point is that teaching kids how to be assertive for themselves and positively express themselves and standing up for their rights is not something that is really taught, but would befit so many. They will reach adulthood without having learned it. Bottled up or become aggressive. We need to be more active in good mental health teachings and exercises.

No one ever taught me to look at myself in the mirror and say something positive about myself. Like homeless people we tend to ignore depression on average because we have the wrong ideas about it or think its contagious and steer clear of it.

More education and acceptance would go a long way. But much like domestic violence, people tend to sweep it under the rug because it's something uncomfortable to acknowledge or talk about. I hope we can change that.

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Forgotten_Charity
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Re: A Suicide

Post by Forgotten_Charity » 20 Feb 2014, 10:55

Incidentally, I'm so happy that is the churches current position. That was not in anyway my experience with sacrament and gospel talks and personal talks I got. It most definitely at the time was and I was seen and treated as a murderer. I became an outcast, talked about in class and in front of.

I wouldn't wish that in anyone. So I'm very happy that's changed.

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MockingJay
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Re: A Suicide

Post by MockingJay » 21 Feb 2014, 06:35

Hyrum W. Smith gave a talk at the funeral of a suicide victim in 2002. There's a printed copy of the talk called "My Peace I Give Unto You." I didn't have time to read through all the posts in this thread, so someone may have already mentioned it. It's an excellent resource for LDS families dealing with a suicide in the family. Hyrum Smith was DH's mission pres. and one of DH's companions told him about it at the time. We've given it to a few people who have gone through this. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it online except at Amazon for like $80 (? it's a twelve page pamphlet.) It's something worth reading if you can find it.

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SamBee
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Re: A Suicide

Post by SamBee » 04 Mar 2014, 16:13

Spoke to the man's brother today. He says he's had some horrible nightmares recently. It's very sad.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Re: A Suicide

Post by SamBee » 12 Aug 2014, 05:31

Genuinely sorry about Robin Williams. His career was perhaps largely past, but those of Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Brittany Murphy weren't.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: A Suicide

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Aug 2014, 08:31

Depression is horrible, and the stats about its prevalence are staggering. Anything we can do to de-stigmatize it and proper ways to try to deal with it (including medication) is worth it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

RiverSong14
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Re: A Suicide

Post by RiverSong14 » 12 Aug 2014, 08:48

Robin Williams' death hit me pretty hard. I have been suicidal before. I know that feeling of worthlessness and believing the world would be better off without you. I am fortunate to have some pretty good tools to cope. My heart hurts for Robin and his family. May God's grace give him peace, rest, and maybe a glimpse of how much he meant to the world.

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SamBee
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Re: A Suicide

Post by SamBee » 12 Aug 2014, 14:02

Stats are useful in one sense, they prove just how common the phenomenon is. Plenty of suicide attempts are also never reported.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Gerald
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Re: A Suicide

Post by Gerald » 14 Aug 2014, 05:18

For those interested, you might check out this website: http://www.kevinhinesstory.com/

I heard Kevin speak and his experience with mental illness was tragic, compelling and ultimately triumphant in many ways. He made it clear to the audience that he continues to struggle with his mental health problems.

Also very interesting is this: http://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_briggs_t ... e_and_life. I heard him speak at the same event. He provided some interesting insights into what people who contemplate suicide are going through.
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

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RagDollSallyUT
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Re: A Suicide

Post by RagDollSallyUT » 22 Aug 2014, 17:16

This is a subject that has been on my mind much lately. At the beginning of the year my 18 year old daughter had been struggling with attempts on her life (she tried 4 times) and spent some time in the psyche ward because of it. Then last month my cousin who was her same age suddenly did. It hit really hard. Good active mormon girl on scholarship- accomplished and talented with a blank slate life ahead of her.

I had always been rather "pro-suicide" for a Mormon. By that i do NOT mean that anyone should commit suicide. However, I have always felt that they shouldn't have been judged. Also as a parent, I could not possibly imagine that a father god would ever say to a child who had been in so much pain that they screwed up their eternity and could not enter into his celestial glory. Yet, even if not said by the prophet himself, I was raised in the church where it was definitely taught that suicide=murder and murder is the one sin that can never be forgiven. This is one of the issues that bothered me much but that I had enough faith to put on the back burner and ignore.

So now that it came to light in my personal life, I decided I wanted to look up exactly what the church was officially saying these days and I found the same article nibbler referenced:
I read and re-read. I liked that the church was being much less judgmental than they had been in the past. But wait-- so as I re-read this I am thinking about this statement:

[quote}Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives."[/quote]

So wait- what you are saying is that if you are out of your mind then maybe you won't be condemned, but if you are in your right mind and commit suicide then you will. Then it's a sin. Wait- what? Doesn't there very fact that the person committed suicide mean that THEY ARE NOT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND? Even if not "insane" they are out of their mind with pain to the point that they are thinking suicide is the best alternative. Certainly no one who is not in extreme pain or confusion could even think of ending their lives. To me the very statement is sounding more ludicrous the more I think about it. I can only think of one exception- maybe. There are those who seem to be so evil that they go out and commit mass murder like shooting up a school and then turn the gun on themselves. Or the terrorists who do suicide bombings. Even them though I have to wonder if there was some degree of mental illness involved. Really I am pretty sure they are just evil but I don't know everything, so that is a riddle I am content to leave with God.

But the more and more I thought about this article, the more I thought it was a statement of plausibly deniability on the church's part and a denial tactic used to make use doubt ourselves because there was a change, and the church can't admit wrong. "We were right before and we are right now, it's just you misunderstood us. (see my post at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5841&start=10) Sigh I don't want to think this is just me being cynical. Is it?
Attacked by Christmas Toys? That's strange. That's the second complaint we've had!-Nightmare Before Christmas
We're gonna need a bigger boat.-Jaws
If we are to be saved in an ark, as Noah and his family were, it will be because we build it.-Brigham Young

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