Feeling I Can't Go On

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 16 Mar 2013, 23:19

I forgot about something I wanted to share. On the way to the temple tonight, we listened to a country song by Lee Brice. He sings "I'm hard to love, hard to love, I don't make it easy.." and I said to my wife, "This song is about about me." She agreed. Then I said, "God makes it hard to believe in the church." She said, "It's easy for me."

It used to be easy for me, but now I'm thinking about what it would be like if the gold plates were verified by scientists to be of ancient origin and were now sitting in the church museum for all to see. What if Joseph's life had not been so complex and was always beyond reproach? What if there were no race or plural marriage issues? Would it all be too easy to believe and not require much faith? It is one of the first principles of the gospel, so should I be surprised that faith is required, even great faith?

User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by mackay11 » 17 Mar 2013, 14:38

After getting all wound up over the weekend I was wondering something similar. What if this is our Abrahamic moment. I dislike the concept, but am still considering it. Abraham was asked to have faith in God, against all logic and reason. I feel like I'm asked to do the same. Admittedly the stakes are a lot lower, but I still feel that I need to have faith in spite of the facts. If it is really true, is it made more difficult to sort out wheat and tares? Again, I find the idea of a God planting stumbling blocks in his 'one true church' to filter out the weak in faith to be unpalatable.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16004
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Curt Sunshine » 17 Mar 2013, 15:15

I find the idea of a God planting stumbling blocks in his 'one true church' to filter out the weak in faith to be unpalatable.


Amen! I reject that idea, especially when it pertains to rejecting truth (like the age of the earth, for example). We talk about the incorrect traditions of "their" fathers, but we forget too easily about the incorrect traditions of "our" fathers.

Bottom line: We're all human.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 17 Mar 2013, 16:55

I don't see it as God planting stumbling blocks. It's more like He allows us to be human rather than stepping in to prevent follies.

User avatar
Thoreau
Posts: 264
Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 16:51

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Thoreau » 17 Mar 2013, 20:22

Thank you for your thoughts Shawn. Maybe there is something to a testimony being meant for someone.
“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by mackay11 » 18 Mar 2013, 08:13

So if they're not stumbling blocks placed by God... why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up.

Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn't happen! It makes no sense!

The 'big doctrine' is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I'm left with. But I just don't buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.

Roy
Posts: 4955
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Roy » 18 Mar 2013, 09:29

mackay11 wrote:So if they're not stumbling blocks placed by God... why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up.

Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn't happen! It makes no sense!

The 'big doctrine' is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I'm left with. But I just don't buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.
What if God has given us the power to approach inspiring and divine things through pondering, meditation, prayer, etc. but that power is always enmeshed with our human limitations, assumptions, ego, etc.
Then this filtered inspiration may be twisted and interpreted by various individuals to suit their own purposes (some noble, some not, most a mixture). We can have all the great thinkers of time capable of wondrous concepts and also capable of great harm.

I interpret all the visitations as visions and as visions they are ethereal, shifting, and pliable. They also do not need to represent anything about the order of heaven (unlike what we assume about visitations). They are similar to a dream - that may reveal powerful and inspiring truths but that does not mean that the events of the dream physically transpired.

Also truths can be contradictory. Take the following examples:
"The early bird gets the worm"
"All good things come to those who wait"

Which one of these is true? Can they both be true? NDE (Near Death Experiences) can also express wonderful concepts, yet it would be a mistake to mentally construct a heavenly kingdom complete with rules and hierarchy that are absolute based upon an individual’s NDE. Similarly a vision of the Father and the Son as two separate beings need not mean that they are not One in ways that we cannot fully comprehend - there may be truths to ponder regarding their separateness as well as their Oneness.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 18 Mar 2013, 13:20

mackay11 wrote:So if they're not stumbling blocks placed by God... why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up.

Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn't happen! It makes no sense!

The 'big doctrine' is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I'm left with. But I just don't buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.
Church history looks quite screwed up when focusing no the controversial issues. That skews perspective. Most of the history is actually good and simple.

User avatar
Shawn
Posts: 707
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 18 Mar 2013, 13:27

But of course there's more to it. Some things are messed up and they cause big problems. There are arguments for both sides, so it comes down to faith. Bill Reel has said that a couple times at least in his podcasts.

Clay
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Mar 2013, 23:16

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Clay » 24 Mar 2013, 23:51

I feel your frustration! Believe e I have been there. You have to keep things in perspective and try to see the big picture. Humans are evolving and changing all the time. I mean after all once we thought the earth was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe and that the Black Death was caused by sin. Our church leaders today, in the recent past and in the more distant past are all products of their culture and society. Quakers on the moon, Dinosaur bones placed here by the devil., our brothers and sisters of African decent are cursed. We make the mistake of thinking that the church is black and white but it is not. There are lots of shades of gray. We are learning new things all the time and our ideas as a society are always changing and evolving. Take what you feel is good about the church and let everything else go.

Post Reply