Feeling I Can't Go On

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Shawn
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Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 12 Mar 2013, 12:22

SamBee wrote:
Shawn wrote:I like a lot about the church. I am not saying I can't go on in the church. I am saying I can't keep going in this faith crisis. I'm sorry for not not being very clear :smile:
That's okay, I understood that. Personally, I've used that technique, i.e. go back to what I like. Not only does it help me steer around what I have trouble with, it reminds me why I stay. Some of the bad stuff becomes irrelevant.
Oh, I see what you meant now. It is nice to think about what I like about the church. I can take a break from stewing, but then I will have to deal with it later. I think you are very right about some bad stuff becoming irrelevant. Some things are big issues only because I make them so.
SamBee wrote:I don't think we discuss BY enough here. I don't see him as prophet like JS, I see him as an organizer, a leader, a politician, things that JS failed at sometimes. He made some dreadful choices, we know that, but he also helped the church stabilize and survive. He created an entire state, rather than a BOM.

I understand your frustration, you've reached an impasse. I've been there. Do you do anything artistic? Art and music can help, in very deep and unexplainable ways.

Anyway we'll talk more later.
Good point about Brother Brigham. The sad thing is that 95% of what he said is awesome, but many tend to focus on the other 5%.

I have only recently become an avid reader. Three books have been great distractions: David Copperfield, Don Quixote, and Gulliver's Travels. I am now toward the end of The Three Musketeers.

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Shawn
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Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 12 Mar 2013, 12:26

Orson wrote:
Shawn wrote:Why can’t the Gospel be simpler? Why does all that crap get in the way?
At least "The Gospel" is a little simpler than the church, and it may help to focus on that for a while. I know it's not easy, unfortunately life is just hard much of the time. I think the difficulty is why "life" fills its divine purpose, the hotter the fire the stronger the steel...

But no it is not easy, hang in there. Best wishes.
Thanks Orson. That's what my wife said about the Gospel. You must be wise :lol:

I would like to focus on the Gospel. I just feel driven to get the "stuff" out of the way and I want to do it as quickly as possible. I wonder if accelerating a crisis is possible.

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Shawn
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Location: Utah

Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 12 Mar 2013, 12:28

mackay11 wrote:Shawn, I totally know what you mean. It's so consuming and I feel so stuck in the middle. Sometimes my 'middle way' feels more 'muddled way.'

Some weeks I'm flying and think it will be fine. Other weeks I crash and wonder how I'm going to keep seeing the positives.

I've no solutions for you. I agree with SamBee that focusing on the positives is a good coping mechanism. But it's a circle that seems to be shrinking.
Thanks for the comments. Though I am usually a pessimist, I actually believe there are many positives to see. I don't think that circle is shrinking - I think it's a matter of perspective, and I am working on my perspective.

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Shawn
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Shawn » 12 Mar 2013, 12:34

Sorry for the multiple posts, but each of you deserves a separate response.
mom3 wrote:...Sometimes it's a new book. If I really like it I can get caught up in it and let the crisis have a rest. It allows me another topic to talk to people about that helps keep conversations off church stuff, too.

I've read your posts during happier times and I hope you find that Shawn soon.
Good luck - and I'm sorry. I totally get it.
Amen to good books.

Yes, I have happier times when I am not stewing about stuff. But then I sometimes become critical about some things said on this site, and I'm sorry for that. Thanks for your support.
Ray Degraw wrote:
I've read your posts during happier times and I hope you find that Shawn soon.

Amen.
Okay, this one-word post doesn't deserve a separate response. JK. Thanks, Ray.

Roy
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by Roy » 12 Mar 2013, 12:56

Shawn wrote:Thanks for the comments. Though I am usually a pessimist, I actually believe there are many positives to see. I don't think that circle is shrinking - I think it's a matter of perspective, and I am working on my perspective.
[snip]
I would like to focus on the Gospel. I just feel driven to get the "stuff" out of the way and I want to do it as quickly as possible. I wonder if accelerating a crisis is possible.
Hi Shawn,

I have a couple of thoughts on this -
1) I agree that many things are a matter of perspective - but that is not the same thing as saying that we choose our perspective. For exampe, I would have a really hard time declaring that the grass is blue and believing it to be blue because my past experience tells me that it is green. I do believe that we can influence our perspective, but our ability to do so is limited and varies between individuals.
2) I think of the faith crisis process as similar to the steps of grief. You don't get to just opt out. I know for me, in my process that I like to call "assumptive world collapse," I felt like I was being propelled forward through the process. As though my psyche was reverting to some type of hardwired back-up programming that was rooted below the consiousness. I did have some choices along the way but my choices seemed to either help smooth the process or complicate the process - there was no excape hatch - it had to be lived through.

My hope for you is that you cut yourself (and others) some slack. Life is messy and there isn't any way to "fix" it.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DBMormon
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by DBMormon » 12 Mar 2013, 13:53

Shawn,
For me the angst stopped the moment I realized there is no smoking gun. In otherwords you will never be able to prove belief vs atheism, Christianity versus Muslim, Mormonism versus Baptist. No matter what you choose you have to step into the darkness before the peace comes. I never understood that until about a year ago, once I did. I have been at peace since. Faith as Paul says is to hope for things the evidence of which not seen.

Is mormonism True? Heck if I know, but I think it is, I have had spiritual manifestations that have led me to believe God wants me to think it is, I believe it is, hope it is.... and I live by faith. An expectation of knowledge goes right out the door. I am ok with never knowing absolute truth.

church0333
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by church0333 » 12 Mar 2013, 14:42

Shawn,

I really appreciate many of your insights. I can tell that this really is something important to you and that you have a caring spirit. It does make it hard to let somethings go. I think that I am the same way. I have had many difference experiences that have giving me many different roles to play. I am a dad, a vet dealing with some PTSD, a Mormon, an employee, and the list goes on and on. I have noticed that when I get bogged down with just being a vet, or with my faith crisis that I tend to loose focus on the other roles I also play and then I am no good to anyone. I don't want want just one role to define me, so when I am feeling overwelmed with one aspect of my life, I purposely set that aside until I get back in balance. I will read stuff here but I won't post. I have a good friend that has helped me a great deal the last few months and he ask me all most every time I see him how my FC is going and many times I will tell him that I am not doing so well but lets talk about his issues or sports or any thing besides my FC. I guess I am just trying to say, step back and take a few deep breaths and enjoy the other areas of your life outside of the church. You are a good man.

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SamBee
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by SamBee » 12 Mar 2013, 17:06

Shawn, Don Quixote is my favorite book, followed by Moby Dick. Gulliver's Travels is excellent too. There's a lot to be learnt from el Don and Gulliver spiritually. It's just a pity people tend to focus on the early parts of each book (windmills + Lilliput & ?Brobinag) and neglect other parts.. I think particularly of when the don experiences self-doubt or when Sancho gets his island and has to mete out justice... and the Laputa episode (an excellent send up of science) & the yahoos and horses.

Regarding the gospel, I could see the church s being a beautiful woman. As she grew up, she got involved in some stupid things, wore bad make up, said and did the wrong things sometimes but regrets it as she's grown up. She's been prideful and spiteful because of her beauty, as focussed too much on the external, but her real beauty comes from within, in her small gestures. Some people see her as a pretty face with no real personality or intelligence. Others as too nice and prim. Her sister churches make fun of her because of all the attention she gets, partly out of envy. Sometimes they tell her she is ugly and she believes it. She has been harrassed, and had and unwanted attention from men with bad intentions. However many good people love her too, for both her inner and outer beauty. Like many such women, she is imperfect and that makes her more endearing.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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mom3
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by mom3 » 12 Mar 2013, 17:42

Sam - I love your church woman. That is one of the coolest analogies. She is lucky to have you.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SamBee
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Re: Feeling I Can't Go On

Post by SamBee » 12 Mar 2013, 18:25

Thanks I'm glad you liked it, I thought your stained glass analogy was good.

Mine was a bit tongue in cheek though!

People have had some bad experiences at church, cwald for example and some other horror stories exmos tell, but against that you have the kindness of a bishop story recently posted here, or the other recent thread about cynicism being turned around... I struggle with the BoA, and cannot prove the historical truth of the BoM, which I love. And for all the stupidity in the church, and the murky origins of the temple ceremonies, I love having a TR and find I enjoy going there.
Church members are amongst the best people I know, and that's why their behavior can hurt. Most of my friends are outside the church, but since they live by looser standards (as some would admit, themselves), I can ironically forgive them more easily. When church leaders do or say dumb things, it's even worse. We notice it more.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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