A long post about deception...

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Re: A long post about deception...

Post by jmb275 » 18 May 2009, 11:02

Heber13 wrote:Well worded response. You make your point clear and that has given me much to ponder about, and I'll probably need to go back and reread the post when I have more time, but thank you as this is exactly what I am searching for. My prior TBM paradigm did not seem to hold up and carry me through my recent crisis, and now I need to work through stage 4 to get to where I know what I believe anymore, and what I should be holding on to as literal, symbolic, and of value to my happiness. I have not viewed this as deception, but my own lack of understanding gospel principles because I never needed to dig for deeper meaning or application before. I put the deception on myself for deceiving myself with stage 3 faith.
I agree with you here. I am positive that I myself am partially responsible for the deception. Some of this is my personality. Many (like my wife) are able to have a more heterodox view naturally. This has led me to question the wisdom of a single true path to God as defined by a single religion. Of course now, I'm at a place where I believe there are many paths to "God" and that it is a personal journey. For me, a healthy dose of skepticism is always good just to counteract my natural ability/curse to take things too much at face value. I think I've gotten better, but it has taken time, and I have to be very careful. My research about psychology has helped immensely in this process. Understanding how the mind perceives new information, IMHO, is critical to making good decisions.

Incidentally, I have a book in PDF format I could send you if you're interested. It's out of print now. I got a hold of it because I at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. It was written by a former CIA intelligence officer who was instrumental in describing how our psychology often prevents us from making good decisions. The application, obviously, is military intelligence, but it has nothing to do with religion, but rather is about the psychology of decision making.
Heber13 wrote:I understand more of your position now. I think I get hung up on the word "deception" as a devious, intentional act tied to a specific leader. I need to better understand your "institutional deception" idea, which just may take some time to let it sink in.
Well, I hope I'm not coming across too strong (probably am). I think it's fair (and good to counteract my views) that some people view it another way. I certainly don't think it's the same kind of deception that a conman uses. And the fact that leaders, and TBMs have good intentions makes it manageable for me to understand, even if I don't agree with it.
Heber13 wrote:The other element critical to our discussion here is really understanding revelation and how it works. More for us to discuss. Thanks for your post.
Yes, I am looking forward to the discussions. I very much enjoy your comments and perspective.
I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women--all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there.
- Joseph Smith, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 304)

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Re: A long post about deception...

Post by AmyJ » 07 Feb 2018, 08:26

Curt Sunshine wrote:
09 May 2009, 20:42
I agree totally that outrage can be a motivator for good; I don't think we can act in anger - which I define as acting under the influence of anger. I believe any outrage we feel must be channeled (used to cause focused, intentional, "measured" action) - even if the "measurement" is expansive and forceful. I believe anger distorts and causes a disconnection from the Spirit (from clarity) - that we are commanded to not be angry with our brother for a vital reason.
Thank you for finding the word for me to use when I am outraged with family members deliberately making choices that decrease family happiness out of individual laziness (i.e. those times when the 8 year old leaves ALL her clean laundry DELIBERATELY on the floor instead of picking it up when the expectation and responsibility were clearly and reasonably conveyed by the parent and understood by the child, and said child had every given indication of having the resources to accomplish the goal of clean laundry in the dresser). I can say that and explain that now properly - yay! I am not "angry" I am "outraged" and "frustrated" that such circumstances occurred, and the child will need to figure out how to appease my outrage by her choices. NOTE: I strive not to discipline in anger, and I know that my role as disciplinarian is to put into place the patterns and consequences to teach discipline, not anger. Love and Logic is my friend in this regard. The only thing that will hopefully be permanently bruised in this encounter is the child's pride, and hopefully an impression of what acceptable choices constitute regarding clean laundry ownership are in this family, and the consequences of willfully disregarding family rules and happiness in this regard will be etched into the memory of the child.

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