An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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SilentDawning
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by SilentDawning » 10 May 2011, 13:55

Yes, I don't know how Ray and Brian feel about this, but I think many TBM would consider people who frequent this site, like myself, as totally apostate.

I have one close friend in a different state in whom I confided about my conversations here on StayLDS. I trust him profusely and he cares about the intrinsic SilentDawning. He took a gander at this site and told me, for the first time in 12 years, that he thinks I am now officially apostate, even though at the time I could answers all the TR questions with integrity, and probably could do so now.

The one I would get caught on, he suggested would be "do you associate with any groups or individuals that teach ideas contrary to the Church" (paraphrased). Some of our ideas are more liberal than what you find in the mainstream at Church; even the StayLDS article advocates ways that are less than what the Church would like to see. So, in the hand of a militant priesthood leader who puts the organization way ahead of individuals, you might find a temple recommend denial forthcoming if that TR question exposed one's involvement here.

As a result of sharing my involvement here, he flatly told me I was apostate, and even called me to explain what led to my apostasy so he could use it in a talk on preventing apostasy. So, my experience tells me there are some who see little value attached to what we do here. In fact, they may even see it as a deleterious influence.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Heber13
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by Heber13 » 10 May 2011, 14:28

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
I'm pretty sure that is the direct question.

Like most things, if taken on the surface some people assume this means only one thing and jump to conclusions about things. With more info and thought...one can see there is no danger to be found here at this site that challenges this temple recommend question. I'm still fine with answering "No" to this question and remaining involved with this group. I feel no opposition to the church here. Yes, there are opposing views some have at some time about some things ... but there is no opposition to the church here. If there is...then I must go on my way...but I'm convinced there is not.

On this site, I am striving to understand and apply teachings and practices accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, based on my experiences in this life. Just because others at church don't agree with me doesn't mean I am opposing the church...only that we don't agree on some things as fellow citizens of the church.

That's my take. I do not have trials of faith as a result of visiting this site. I visit this site as a result of my trials I was having as a fully devoted TBM.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 May 2011, 14:50

People generally see what their eyesight and/or glasses allow them to see - and that's as true of everyone here as it is of anyone not here. I'm not surprised that some might see this site as a gathering of apostates - but I certainly don't see it that way. Yeah, I understand why others might be concerned if they haven't read and looked deeply into what we do here - or if it just is their natural tendency to reject anything that is not consistent with their own worldview. I really do get that - and I don't condemn or mock or belittle them for it. It's "faithful" for them, just as my approach is "faithful" for me.

I'm a firmly believing, active, calling serving, deeply dedicated LDS member. I'm genetically Mormon. I am positive I will die an active member of the LDS Church. I believe strongly in honoring and supporting and sustaining the leaders of the Church - at all levels. I just don't think any of us are infallible - and that includes me. I admit freely I might be wrong about a lot of things - but I'm doing my best to understand and live according to my understanding. I actually am a church geek - meaning I really enjoy church and worship and fellowship, even when I am frustrated at things and disagree with what might be said from the pulpit or in a class.

I don't consider myself any "kind" of Mormon; I'm Mormon. Period. Full stop.

We don't violate the temple recommend question in any way here. Period. Full stop.

I wouldn't be involved if that happened here. Period. Full stop.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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HiJolly
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by HiJolly » 10 May 2011, 15:06

I ran across this quote and thought of cwald (and most of us, too):

John Taylor, JD 9:14:

Suppose there are some who do not do exactly right in some places, what of that? There are many things that are not right. Never mind; everything that is wrong will in due time be righted. Permit me to bring a figure before you. A year ago last winter there was a very severe frost, and it injured the fruit trees. Some who professed to be judges thought it best to cut down the peach trees; some thought that if left alone they would still grow, and therefore they left them alone to see how many would live. There was quite a difference of opinion upon the subject, and some adopted one plan, and some another. The general impression was, I believe, that it would be best to cut off those limbs that were frost-bitten and that did not appear to have much sap in them.

Now, my doctrine is, Prune the trees, or, in other words, the branches of the great tree to which we are connected, just at the time when it will do the least injury. It requires great wisdom, however, to prune and regulate the Church of Christ. There were a great many of our people got frost-bitten—a kind of dead in their spirits, and some were for going right to work and pruning; but hold on. Said Jesus, "The wheat and tares must grow together until harvest." Perhaps you would pull up the wheat with the tares, if you were to do it when you think best. If there is nothing good in a man, he will by-and-by develop the evil that is in him, and then everybody will agree that the pruning ought to be done, and the branch ought to be cut off; but if the good preponderates, it would be wrong, because of prejudice or ignorance, to destroy the good. It is best to leave it to the husbandman, and then all the congregation will say Amen.


HJ
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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Brian Johnston
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by Brian Johnston » 10 May 2011, 15:10

I'm a HERETIC not an apostate. Sheeesh! They need to get their pejoratives correct :roll: get it right...

I am also a Mormon. I like what Ray said. I'm a Mormon, not a hyphenated Mormon. I'm on the same team. We are on the same team here.
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

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Tom Haws
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by Tom Haws » 10 May 2011, 15:50

Brian Johnston wrote:I like what Ray said. I'm a Mormon, not a hyphenated Mormon. I'm on the same team. We are on the same team here.
You forgot to say period full stop! :lol:

It's cool to answer that recommend question "no". I always answer it "yes"; life's full of twisted affiliations. They give me a recommend anyway so far.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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mercyngrace
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by mercyngrace » 10 May 2011, 18:46

Brian Johnston wrote:I'm a HERETIC not an apostate. Sheeesh! They need to get their pejoratives correct :roll: get it right...
Oddly enough, I have on occasion been called a heretic, an apostate, and even "an enemy of Christ" for teaching nothing more or less than what has been taught by church presidents, general authorities, the standard works and the temple drama.

I think I'm 100% orthodox. It's the rest of the church who've gone astray. :lol:
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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timpanogos
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by timpanogos » 10 May 2011, 18:49

mercyngrace wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:I'm a HERETIC not an apostate. Sheeesh! They need to get their pejoratives correct :roll: get it right...
Oddly enough, I have on occasion been called a heretic, an apostate, and even "an enemy of Christ" for teaching nothing more or less than what has been taught by church presidents, general authorities, the standard works and the temple drama.

I think I'm 100% orthodox. It's the rest of the church who've gone astray. :lol:
And now ... drum roll ... M&G - is definately "uncorrelated"!

There add that one to your list

Sorry M&G ... your old school orthodox/uncorrelated ... if that's not the same thing??
Push to the Peak!

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mercyngrace
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by mercyngrace » 10 May 2011, 18:57

I don't know what I am, timpanogos, but I know what I believe. And sometimes they even teach it in church. Haha!
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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Heber13
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Re: An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons

Post by Heber13 » 10 May 2011, 21:00

mercyngrace wrote: I think I'm 100% orthodox. It's the rest of the church who've gone astray. :lol:
:clap: nice!
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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