I Know the Scriptures are True

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
canadiangirl
Posts: 228
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 23:15

I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by canadiangirl » 09 Jan 2011, 23:53

Ok so some of you know that I'm the primary pianist every other week and today I learned the new theme for 2011 "I Know the Scriptures are True". What does this really mean? As I've been reading "The Bible: A Biography" by Karen Armstrong I am learning how the bible was put together and my thought is that well I'm not sure "true" is how I would describe those scriptures. "Inspired" barely. Political, traditional, mythological, allegorical, those are words I would use and yes I do believe there was some inspiration involved but "true"? I realize that for kids we need to make things simple but I'm wondering how I might give my kids a little different perspective.

The YW/YM theme is the 13th article of faith. What does it mean to believe all things, hope all things, endure many things and hope to endure all things? I'm really beginning to parse out the words in scripture and this part confuses me? Any thoughts would be so appreciated!!

Thanks,
CG

Cnsl1
Posts: 211
Joined: 05 Jan 2009, 01:33

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by Cnsl1 » 10 Jan 2011, 01:40

Of course they are true! You just have to understand what "true" means and how slippery it can be.

One of the songs that help primary kids know how "true" scriptures can be is the once called "Scripture Power" where everyone throws up their hand in the chorus while trying to hold their quads and inevitably knocking their neighbor in the noggin. Talk about power!

As far as how to help your kids better understand your perspective, I guess it depends on their ages. My strategy is to just try to help the child understand what you want to teach them at a level appropriate to their development and ability. How do you explain sex to your kids? Santa Claus? Or, abstract gospel themes like the Atonement or plan of salvation?

I had a similar experience tonight when my teenage daughter was asking my wife about where Adam fit in the chronology of dinosaurs and cave men. They were coming up with some possibilities and I added, "... or, maybe it's just a good story to teach us about our relationship with God" and all I got was rolled eyes, a teenage smirk, and a cold shoulder. So, then I mentioned that maybe Adam and Eve were the first "normal" human people after a long history of evolution through the dinosaur age and my teenager decided maybe that was possible. At least she's thinking and asking questions... even if not of me. I think she's figured out already that my thinking is sometimes way outside the box she still wants to be in.

Back to the Primary Theme for 2011, I'm not a fan. I wish it were more something like "The Scriptures Can Help Me Grow Closer to Christ"

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16610
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 Jan 2011, 08:23

As long as we throw in the "as far as it is translated correctly" . . . That disclaimer leaves the door WIDE open. :P

We had a really good discussion a while ago of what "true" can mean in the context of a non-literal paradigm. I'll try to find it (or more than one, possibly) and provide the link(s).
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by cwald » 10 Jan 2011, 09:24

Unfortunately many folks equate "true" with the word "literal."

I believe there are some "truths" within the scriptures, but I KNOW they are not to be taken literal.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

User avatar
flower
Posts: 212
Joined: 20 Jan 2010, 10:06
Location: Sandy, Utah
Contact:

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by flower » 10 Jan 2011, 11:13

I just learned last week what this years Primary theme was and I was hoping the topic would come up. The problem is kids have a very b&w and literal view. Trying to explain differing shades of truth to a primary age child doesn't always go over well.

I will be following this thread.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling

http://tinymosquito.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Butters
Posts: 75
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 15:46

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by Butters » 10 Jan 2011, 12:50

Ugh, I had some of the same thoughts as I was sitting in sharing time the last 2 weeks.

And then the lady in the presidency gave an object lesson. She had 3 adults in front of the class and she served them brownie sundae's. One of them was barely eating any of it, another was eating normally and the 3rd was gobbling it up ferociously.
Of course the lesson was on how we should be partaking of the scriptures. :roll:

So far the lessons haven't been too bad, but I can see some of the directions this is going to be taken and I know that I am going to struggle with sitting there quietly. I did keep my mouth shut last week because I know that if I were to have said something I would have been met with :wtf: looks. (The thoughts were along with what CG had said in the original post).

I am with you, CG, I am not sure how to go about teaching my kids differently without coming full out with my issues on things. I am just going to hope that I am lead into discussions with them at the right time that will open some room for thoughts.
Never look down on anybody, unless you're helping them up.

User avatar
Orson
Site Admin
Posts: 2252
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 14:44

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by Orson » 10 Jan 2011, 14:26

It does take some time to sort things out as your understanding evolves. Scriptural stories may not be as "literally" true as you once thought, but I feel they can be deeply true - in a religious/spiritual sense of the word. [Again, allow some time and "let the spirit teach" you about what that really means.]

I love the 13th article of faith! "Believe ALL things" Perfect!! Believe the literal, spiritual, metaphorical, scientific, etc.. All truths, believe it ALL! Hope ALL things... I take this as all things good, I aspire to hope all things good -- and to endure all things well.
My avatar - both physical and spiritual.

I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

User avatar
Cadence
Posts: 1174
Joined: 08 Dec 2009, 21:36

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by Cadence » 10 Jan 2011, 18:18

If we replaced the word true with accurate. Would people be as willing to say the scriptures were accurate? Not so sure.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

doug
Posts: 799
Joined: 23 Sep 2010, 07:37

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by doug » 10 Jan 2011, 19:05

Two of my least favourite words: 'know' and 'true' -- all in the the same short sentence. Good luck with that. Or so says my annoying rational self.

If I were being a good boy, I think I would try to convey that my understanding of that statement would be "I feel in my heart that in the scriptures I can find things that bring me closer to God." I don't know how one does that, particularly in primary. And, frankly, for most of those kids, and many adults, for that matter, the distinction will be lost.

No matter. For me, it helps to find intellectually honest, and yet positive and helpful (at least in my opinion) ways to affirm faith, because, for me, it's really hard not to grit my teeth when I say things in ways that I feel are expected of me, but with which I can not come to terms. Even when nobody else would know or notice the difference.

BTW, thanks for the Karen Armstrong reference. I've been looking for something like that.
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -- Mark Twain

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: I Know the Scriptures are True

Post by cwald » 10 Jan 2011, 23:39

Cadence wrote:If we replaced the word true with accurate. Would people be as willing to say the scriptures were accurate? Not so sure.
Perhaps a better question is do they have to be accurate to be true? I know that a compass does.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Post Reply