Garments and body image

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by DarkJedi » 12 Apr 2019, 05:42

rrosskopf wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 03:17
The garments are a gift from God.
Lucky you. I had to pay for mine. ;)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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grobert93
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by grobert93 » 12 Apr 2019, 06:46

rrosskopf wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 03:17
HSAB wrote:
20 May 2012, 10:56
I put on the shorts and I feel disgusting, fat and ugly. I also feel like a boy.
It's probably already been mentioned, but the original garment was more like a dress. Yet I don't believe Adam felt like a girl. It just depends on one's cultural programming.
Ultimately, you are a Latter Day Saint, and your garments identify you as such. You should not be ashamed. The garments are a gift from God. Wear then with grattitude.
The garments are not comfortable for everyone. I know someone who has a medical condition where she sweats with physical contact due to certain materials. She tried several garment types and each one creates a reaction to her skin. She found it better to avoid garments unless she has something underneath them, etc. IMO (and having read opinions on this forum too), garments are a symbolic representation of covenants we've made in the temple, other than that they are just uncomfortable underwear.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Apr 2019, 09:40

Dismissing real concerns and issues individuals have is not helpful, in any setting. Mourning with those who mourn and comforting those who stand in need of comfort requires empathy and real understanding, sometimes - but those actions always require, at the bare minimum, a willingness to withhold judgment and sweeping, generalized advice. Sometimes, we can't feel others' pain, so all we can do is accept their struggles and sit with them in silent or relatively silent love.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by Roy » 12 Apr 2019, 11:40

Daughter, I read your post and was thinking in my mind of what might be helpful to say in response. Then I got to the end and you said everything that I was thinking but better.
I don't think I really have a question. I just really wanted to express my thoughts on the matter. What I have read of the thread has reminded me it's not all or nothing. I can find some normal undies that work for me and wear them when I want and still wear garments for activities where I feel they are able to be worn with proper respect and sufficient comfort. It's been tough thinking things through because so much of the church is framed in a false dichotomy: either I'm wearing garments 24/7 or I have abandoned wearing garments at all. I am finding a middle way. As with all things.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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rrosskopf
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by rrosskopf » 12 Apr 2019, 23:46

grobert93 wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 06:46
The garments are not comfortable for everyone. I know someone who has a medical condition where she sweats with physical contact due to certain materials. She tried several garment types and each one creates a reaction to her skin. She found it better to avoid garments unless she has something underneath them, etc. IMO (and having read opinions on this forum too), garments are a symbolic representation of covenants we've made in the temple, other than that they are just uncomfortable underwear.
Did you know that you can have them custom made? I have a couple of pair that they custom made for me.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by Curt Sunshine » 13 Apr 2019, 06:18

Yes, that is an option, but it doesn't solve many of the issues involved - especially for women.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

grobert93
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Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 16:05

Re: Garments and body image

Post by grobert93 » 13 Apr 2019, 07:06

rrosskopf wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 23:46
grobert93 wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 06:46
The garments are not comfortable for everyone. I know someone who has a medical condition where she sweats with physical contact due to certain materials. She tried several garment types and each one creates a reaction to her skin. She found it better to avoid garments unless she has something underneath them, etc. IMO (and having read opinions on this forum too), garments are a symbolic representation of covenants we've made in the temple, other than that they are just uncomfortable underwear.
Did you know that you can have them custom made? I have a couple of pair that they custom made for me.
Including the material used, the dyes used to color it white, the fabric thickness and even removing the symbolism (due to it's raised physical appearance) ? While I am grateful for flexibility with garment options (especially for those serving in the military for in a wheelchair for example), it's the act of a thin and not-well designed under garment brushing against her skin that is the problem. Similar concept to jumping in a pool with a shirt on, then coming out and putting a dry shirt over the wet one.

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rrosskopf
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by rrosskopf » 15 Apr 2019, 07:20

grobert93 wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 07:06

It's the act of a thin and not-well designed under garment brushing against her skin that is the problem.
There seems to be a tendancy to treat every problem as if it is insurmountable. I don't believe in that philosophy. Certainly there is a cost to faith. If your faith were free, it would be of little value to you. It is all too easy to come up with excuses. Laban can kill a hundred men; he can certainly kill us. Instead of dwelling on the negative, shouldn't we encourage people? Literally give them the courage to act in faith?

nibbler
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by nibbler » 15 Apr 2019, 07:46

Not wanting to wear garments is not a "problem" that must be overcome.

Roy
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Re: Garments and body image

Post by Roy » 15 Apr 2019, 08:41

rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 07:20
There seems to be a tendancy to treat every problem as if it is insurmountable. I don't believe in that philosophy.
I do not believe in that philosophy either. However, I look at a decision to wear garments at some times when it makes the most sense and not at others where it makes less sense as a great way to tackle the problem. It is every bit as valid as the decision another individual might make to have garments custom made. Because different people have different circumstances, body types, conditions, etc. etc. it only makes sense that what works for one person may not work for another.
rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 07:20
Instead of dwelling on the negative, shouldn't we encourage people?
In my opinion, StayLDS is all about encouraging people. However, I think that we should be clear about what that means. We basically function as an online support group that encourages individuals to stay connected to Mormonism and to participate in their faith community to whatever degree they are able, is sustainable, and makes the most sense for them.
Part of this encouraging takes the form of validating a form of middle way approach. Yesterday, in SM, the speaker said that, for her, the WoW included abstaining from all caffeinated beverages. Would it make sense for someone to quit the church because they could not give up Pepsi? Of course not! Especially because it is not doctrine to avoid caffeinated beverages despite what our church culture sometimes teaches.
Garments are similar in my mind. Is it even doctrine to wear them 24/7? Is it a requirement? This does not seem to have been the case historically. When did it change and for what reason? Was it a revelation or just somebody's "good idea"? Would it make sense for someone to quit the church because they did not feel that they could conform to this artificial expectation?
Therefore, we "encourage" people to do what makes the most sense for them individually AND to continue being Mormon. That is StayLDS in a nutshell.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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