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Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 20 May 2020, 11:55
by Roy
“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change”. Often attributed to Dr. Wayne Dyer, this quote originated from Professor Max Planck, recipient of the 1918
I was thinking about the above quote in relation to conspiracy theories. Part of the reason that it is difficult to come to mutual understanding is that the things that we count as evidence are very different.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 20 May 2020, 12:12
by Heber13
Roy wrote:
20 May 2020, 11:55
“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change”. Often attributed to Dr. Wayne Dyer, this quote originated from Professor Max Planck, recipient of the 1918
I was thinking about the above quote in relation to conspiracy theories. Part of the reason that it is difficult to come to mutual understanding is that the things that we count as evidence are very different.
Yes, it becomes very difficult to even talk to conspiracy theorists...it seems the more you show any evidence to the contrary, the more they dig their heels in to defend themselves. "That's exactly what they want you to believe." ...it can be hard to even converse about anything.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 20 May 2020, 12:16
by Heber13
nibbler wrote:
20 May 2020, 11:27
...our conceptualization an afterlife follows a similar model to how conspiracy theories spin up. God, the afterlife, the atonement, the prosperity gospel, etc. can give their believers a sense of control and security. This is especially true when the alternative account feels threatening.
Exactly. The alternate might be there is nothing after we die...and that scares people.

I also think sometimes people use extreme alternate accounts to make their point. Like that example of families being together forever. They make it sound like without the gospel, we just have nothing in the afterlife and that is scary for all our loving relationships. But there are other non-extreme positions to "no relationships in the afterlife" that don't require temple ordinances. Those are just swept under the rug, sometimes.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 20 May 2020, 18:58
by Curt Sunshine
It "helps" that the Religious Right has preached end-times apocalyptic signs of the times in divisive terms for the past 30-40 years. My and my parents generations were baptized in conspiracy theory rhetoric, and the Religious Right has invested savior-esque qualities in politicians who pander to them. It is hard to admit worshipping a false God, so believers double down on anything that bolsters their support. Much of the conspiracy theory is transparently fabricated, and supported by domestic and foreign bot farms distributing false memes at a dizzying rate, but the rhetoric reinforces the persecution complex that by now is entrenched deeply into the collective psyche. America is, collectively, a depressingly unprincipled, gullible nation. It is disheartening, to say the least.

In historical terms, the power systems are the modern equivalent of Ancient Israel demanding a king - or the ruling Jewish class at the time of Jesus maintaining their power through the support of Rome.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 21 May 2020, 12:08
by hawkgrrrl
Heber13: Yes, I did that post before the Plandemic video came out. It was kind of weird, but right before that, there were a bunch of podcasts talking about conspiracy theories, and I was seeing some things in FB and Twitter that seemed driven by conspiracy theory mindset, that knowing wink about what's REALLY going on here...followed by whack-a-doodle ideas.

The weirdest thing I learned on one of these podcasts was that there are 12 million people out there who believe that we are secretly ruled by reptilian overlord aliens. That's the plot of the popular 1980 mini-series V, for crying out loud. Science fiction =/= reality.

And just yesterday I was disappointed to see several of my childhood friends post & re-post this screed about how if you are going to download a contact tracing app on your phone, you can just unfriend them now because they don't grant permission for the government to trace them. I feel like my respect for people I have always liked is suddenly taking a hit.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 21 May 2020, 20:40
by Heber13
It's been interesting for me to see this side of people.

It's so hard for me to grasp how people actually believe something like "reptilian alien overlords" ...and yet...I was raised to believe Bible stories and Joseph Smith as if it was fact. And I knew people who laughed at me and thought I was delusional.

It's not that different. When you believe something, even if others tell you it's not real, you can just believe they are uninformed. They are in the big and spacious building mocking, but you know the truth and must hold to the iron rod and not doubt your faith.

It's just interesting to see conspiracy theorists and dismiss them, then return to orthdox religion as if it is clearly reality.

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 22 May 2020, 08:28
by nibbler
Conspiracies go in both directions.

There's: the coronavirus is a hoax meant to take people's freedoms away and there's a microchip in the vaccine with the number 666 embedded in it so Bill Gates can... do I don't know what.

And there's: they're manipulating the numbers to hide deaths and new cases just so they can make their case for reopening and the vaccine is nothing more than a placebo to get people over their fears of returning.

I guess the question then becomes, what is the fruit of my conspiracy theory? ;)

Re: Plandemic, conspiracies, and faith

Posted: 22 May 2020, 08:49
by Heber13
nibbler wrote:
22 May 2020, 08:28
what is the fruit of my conspiracy theory?
Sometimes I feel it is entertainment. Occupy the mind with some fun stories. Like scouts around a campfire telling stories.