Did Jesus Learn From the Atonement?

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
Post Reply
mfree6464
Posts: 34
Joined: 23 Feb 2016, 17:07

Did Jesus Learn From the Atonement?

Post by mfree6464 » 18 Sep 2019, 09:22

Was thinking about the Atonement this morning. The way I understand it, according to the LDS church (and perhaps others churches as well) the Atonement has two roles - to redeem and to enable. The redeeming power allows all to overcome sin and return to live with God. The enabling power give us an ally here on earth; it gives us an older brother who has already been through it all if you will. Whatever challenge we may be going through, Christ has already experienced it and can relate perfectly.

The premise of my question is this: As Christ was suffering and taking on the sins of the world he was feeling (likely for the first time) the emotions that come with sin, like remorse and regret. Would it be fair to say that this part of the Atonement was a learning experience for Him?

Would it be fair to take it one step further and say that Christ needed to experience the Atonement just as much as we needed a Savior to atone for our mistakes?

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6659
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Did Jesus Learn From the Atonement?

Post by DarkJedi » 18 Sep 2019, 14:47

My orthodox self says yes, Jesus did learn from the atonement. That part of me believes that Jesus does understand all human conditions and challenges and part of that understanding came during the atonement (which I believe began just prior to Gethsemane and culminated int he resurrection). To me "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?" is an indication to me that Jesus did understand what it means to be abandoned by the Spirit/God. I believe he understands way more than that. I also do not believe Jesus was always perfect (and he may not have been perfect before the atonement).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16575
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Did Jesus Learn From the Atonement?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Sep 2019, 15:22

We are told he grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man from the ages of 12-30 before starting his ministry. (one of the most overlooked verses in all of our scriptures, especially by other Christians but also by many, many Mormons) I believe that continued until the end when he finally could say, "It is finished."

I believe he "learned from the Atonement" for one reason: Life is a classroom. If someone, even Jesus, doesn't learn from life, that life is wasted.

Also, I believe "the Atonement" is FAR broader and richer than the Garden, the cross, and the tomb. I believe "the Atonement" is the entirety of eternal life - that it began when GOD first considered mortality for their spirit children and that it will end when the last child becomes what they were created to become. I believe the garden, cross, and tomb simply were the final elements of Jesus' own "at-one-ment".
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
Posts: 5699
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Did Jesus Learn From the Atonement?

Post by Roy » 24 Sep 2019, 09:36

Traditional LDS doctrine has Jesus experiencing his mortal life on our planet in the meridian of time. The veil of forgetfulness seems to have been active for him as it is for us. Jesus had to learn to talk, walk, and use the toilet.
Curt Sunshine wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 15:22
We are told he grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man from the ages of 12-30 before starting his ministry.
I also like Matthew 13:
54Coming to His hometown, He taught the people in their synagogue, and they were astonished. “Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?” they asked. 55“Is this not the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?”
I believe that these verses show that Jesus's upbringing and formative years were pretty normal and unimpressive. They asked "where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?" I believe this suggests that the youthful Jesus either did not have supernatural wisdom or took steps to hide such from non-family.

Alma 7:
11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and aafflictions and btemptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will ctake upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.
12 And he will take upon him adeath, that he may bloose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to csuccor his people according to their infirmities.
These verses seem to say that Jesus went through a mortal life and had to die for reasons other than just checking off the boxes. He did so "That he may know..."

So yes ... 1) Jesus had to have experiences of mortality that he never had before in order to progress. I think we would call this learning. 2) Jesus seemed to "grow in wisdom" and learn in normal ways at least in his youth. 3) Jesus was nervous, anxious, possibly fearful about his coming death. I believe that this implies a degree of unknown. 4) The BoM says that Jesus gained information in his life and in his death that he would not have had access to otherwise.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Post Reply