Theology of Star Wars

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
LadyofRadiantJoy
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by LadyofRadiantJoy » 12 Apr 2019, 13:50

Roy wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 11:14
Guys, I find this Star Wars debate stuff fascinating but we seem to be crossing some lines here.

We cannot attack each other. Period. And accusations of sexism against individual members are clearly an attack.

Knock it off.
I never defined anyone as sexist. I don't see Dande saying that either or anyone else for that matter.

Dande
dande48 wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 11:25
FWIW, I don't appreciate you explaining my opinions or telling me what I believe.

Oh, and Rey saved some of the jedi texts. :)
I don't appreciate the implications of your comments about women having the priesthood means nothing when I've clearly outlined why it is so important. It would be awesome for husbands and wives to bless their children together etc. Worthiness/leaders-in-power issues doesn't make women's ordination meaningless.

I had forgotten about Rey stealing some of the books, that was such a tiny snippet. Hopefully only the good parts, like the whole thing about balance, will be gleaned and the extreme stuff disregarded. My point still stands though. Kylo had the opportunity to prove to Rey that he cares. He could have said, Okay, I will spare them but they need to stop fighting too. And BOOM. She takes his hand. That would have been super interesting.

But one thing we have to be clear on too, is that Star Wars is a FAMILY franchise. So I can see why Disney chose not to go that route, and chose instead to keep it on the surface good vs evil. However, if they try to go the route that Rey can't be in a romantic relationship because Jedi texts say so I will be very upset because definitely not a good family message imo.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Apr 2019, 15:08

(Admin Note): When people start getting misrepresented and attacks follow those misrepresentations, it is time to close comments. We are on the verge of that happening here.

We will keep this post open IF, and only if, the conversation can proceed without misrepresentations of what others say and without personal attacks. If that can't happen, comments will be closed.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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dande48
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by dande48 » 12 Apr 2019, 16:01

I was making the analogy to leadership, not the priesthood. I don't think it matters one bit the gender of who's in charge, and as such sticking a woman in charge won't fix anything, so long as the underlying principles and doctrines remain the same. That is the message I was getting from episode 8, as Rey is intent on holding onto the Jedi Order and "Resistance". Plus, she's insta perfect at everything, and very little character growth, which I feel sets up unrealistic expectations.
LadyofRadiantJoy wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 13:50
Kylo had the opportunity to prove to Rey that he cares. He could have said, Okay, I will spare them but they need to stop fighting too. And BOOM. She takes his hand. That would have been super interesting.
He killed the first order leadership, and was ready to dismantle everything. He wanted the old organizations to be done away with. That doesn't mean killing everyone. So long as there are "Rebels" there will be "Empires". So long as there are jedi, there will be sith. And all will keep on fighting. Kylo hates the order, and the sith. But he also hated the jedi, because Luke tried to murder him out of fear of Kylo's dark side (ironic?). Being on all sides, he recognized none of it is working. But as long as there's still the "resistance" (meaning the organization, not the individual members), there will still be empires.
LadyofRadiantJoy wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 13:50
But one thing we have to be clear on too, is that Star Wars is a FAMILY franchise. So I can see why Disney chose not to go that route, and chose instead to keep it on the surface good vs evil. However, if they try to go the route that Rey can't be in a romantic relationship because Jedi texts say so I will be very upset because definitely not a good family message imo.
But the thing is, the problem with the Jedi (and the Church) to me isn't the policies. The policies are symptomatic. It's some of the main doctrines that are the real problem. That's the message I got from episodes 1-6, anyways. Back to the Church, if a woman became prophet, woman still came from the rib of man. We can be accepting of gays, but God still commanded Moses to have them all stoned.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by DarkJedi » 12 Apr 2019, 16:18

LadyofRadiantJoy wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 10:45
Rey will not have the opportunity to bring back the Jedi religion. She has never read the Jedi texts and never will. Yoda destroyed them. It's already different.
Rey actually saved at least some of the Jedi texts. They're last seen on the Falcon. And it's not clear that she did not study them while hanging out around Luke. The bigger question is not if she can restore the Jedi order (judging by today's teaser she can), but should she?
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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LadyofRadiantJoy
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by LadyofRadiantJoy » 12 Apr 2019, 20:54

DarkJedi wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 16:18
Rey actually saved at least some of the Jedi texts. They're last seen on the Falcon. And it's not clear that she did not study them while hanging out around Luke. The bigger question is not if she can restore the Jedi order (judging by today's teaser she can), but should she?
Yeah, that was already pointed out to me. I had forgotten. Doesn't change the fact that Kylo was trying to get Rey on his side and his way of doing that was to say let your friends die. Not exactly persuasive. The only reason why she paused at all is that he played on all her fears about her origins having come from nothing.
dande48 wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 16:01
I was making the analogy to leadership, not the priesthood. I don't think it matters one bit the gender of who's in charge, and as such sticking a woman in charge won't fix anything, so long as the underlying principles and doctrines remain the same.


I see that, except at church the leadership IS the priesthood. So, your using the church was a poor choice to make that point. A better example might have been kings and queens in history. Some were good, some where bad, regardless of gender.

He killed the first order leadership, and was ready to dismantle everything. He wanted the old organizations to be done away with. That doesn't mean killing everyone. So long as there are "Rebels" there will be "Empires". So long as there are jedi, there will be sith. And all will keep on fighting. Kylo hates the order, and the sith. But he also hated the jedi, because Luke tried to murder him out of fear of Kylo's dark side (ironic?). Being on all sides, he recognized none of it is working. But as long as there's still the "resistance" (meaning the organization, not the individual members), there will still be empires.
I don't disagree, but, Kylo can't say, I don't think you're nothing, join me, but in order to join me you gotta let me kill the people you care about. The rebels being fired upon weren't necessarily extremist, and may have been amenable to a middle ground. Kylo could have had them captured and wooed them. So many other options.
But the thing is, the problem with the Jedi (and the Church) to me isn't the policies. The policies are symptomatic. It's some of the main doctrines that are the real problem. That's the message I got from episodes 1-6, anyways. Back to the Church, if a woman became prophet, woman still came from the rib of man. We can be accepting of gays, but God still commanded Moses to have them all stoned.
So, you take the creation as spoken of in the bible literally?
Are you talking about the whole man shall not lie with another man thing? If so, there is really good evidence that it's actually man shall not lie with boy, that it's actually talking about not engaging in pedophilia.

It's not policies, it's extremist policies. It's a policy at hospitals that family NOT be present while someone is waking up from anesthesia because of how crazy people can be when they first wake up from it and family that aren't trained for that whackiness most often make things worse while trying to help. That's a good policy. A little annoying but ultimately good. Not allowing family to visit at all until the next day after surgery as a policy would be an extreme policy.

Teaching people to love, but also teaching people not to try so hard to win someone's love to the point where you lose yourself is a good thing. Teaching you shouldn't love at all is extremism.

Humans need structure, like our skeletons. Without any we are a pile of goo. With too much tension in our muscles or extra bony growths our bodies go out of whack and we have problems.

LadyofRadiantJoy
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by LadyofRadiantJoy » 12 Apr 2019, 20:57

An interesting question I have is, what do you think you would have done in Rey's place coming from Rey's background and having had made the connections that she made?

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SamBee
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by SamBee » 13 Apr 2019, 02:42

Curt Sunshine wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 15:08
(Admin Note): When people start getting misrepresented and attacks follow those misrepresentations, it is time to close comments. We are on the verge of that happening here.

We will keep this post open IF, and only if, the conversation can proceed without misrepresentations of what others say and without personal attacks. If that can't happen, comments will be closed.
Curt, this is unfair. I haven't instigated any of those comments either way and this is the first chance I've really seen around here for people to say what they find spiritually interesting about Star Wars (which is alluded to frequently but rarely discussed). Is there some other way around this?
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Apr 2019, 05:09

SamBee wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 02:42
Curt Sunshine wrote:
12 Apr 2019, 15:08
(Admin Note): When people start getting misrepresented and attacks follow those misrepresentations, it is time to close comments. We are on the verge of that happening here.

We will keep this post open IF, and only if, the conversation can proceed without misrepresentations of what others say and without personal attacks. If that can't happen, comments will be closed.
Curt, this is unfair. I haven't instigated any of those comments either way and this is the first chance I've really seen around here for people to say what they find spiritually interesting about Star Wars (which is alluded to frequently but rarely discussed). Is there some other way around this?
Put simply, it wasn't you Sam. There's nothing wrong with the thread itself, but there was a personal attack in which you were not the attacker nor the attackee. There are a few people in a few threads that have the team hopping the past couple days. You are not one of those people. Let's carry on the discussion about Star Wars theology, which I find interesting, and play by the rules.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Rumin8
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by Rumin8 » 13 Apr 2019, 22:56

Mods, thanks for all you do. It has been an interesting forum the last week or so.

I love Star Wars. I would view myself as an expert in Star Wars lore. That said, this thread is weird. And interesting. And awesome. I hope it doesn’t get closed down.

Thanks for all the insight and thought provoking parallels gals and guys!

An interesting aside, well interesting to me. I’ve always identified as dark side. But not the “evil” dark side, if that makes sense. When I had the choice when playing Star Wars video games I always chose dark side, but tried to do good things. I know that sounds odd. And the reason is simple: I always felt the Jedi side needlessly strict, conservative, and slow to change. The Jedi order seemed to have way too many rules. Does this sound familiar, anyone?
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Be excellent to each other." - Abraham Lincoln to Bill & Ted

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DarkJedi
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Re: Theology of Star Wars

Post by DarkJedi » 14 Apr 2019, 03:55

Rumin8 wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 22:56
An interesting aside, well interesting to me. I’ve always identified as dark side. But not the “evil” dark side, if that makes sense. When I had the choice when playing Star Wars video games I always chose dark side, but tried to do good things. I know that sounds odd. And the reason is simple: I always felt the Jedi side needlessly strict, conservative, and slow to change. The Jedi order seemed to have way too many rules. Does this sound familiar, anyone?
I totally hear you. The Jedi didn't realize what was wrong with their strict adherence to old (and sometimes incorrect) traditions until it was too late and the Sith had taken advantage of it as their weakness. To the church's credit, I think they do see what is/was wrong with the church of the last few decades and is making changes to focus more on the core principles of the gospel. It's a culture change so it's going to take a bit, but I do think Nelson et al (and I do mean all 15) have been very clear about why they're doing what they're doing. They do tend to blame Satan more than they taking ownership themselves, however, which is sort of like blaming Palpatine for what happened to Anakin.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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