The limit of Free Agency

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
Roy
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Re: The limit of Free Agency

Post by Roy » 21 Nov 2018, 10:11

DarkJedi wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 13:20
An DA might say "Justice was served today as this man is going to prison for the rest of his life without parole" or someone might say "She got her just deserts." There's another definition of justice - fairness.
I heard a saying that I quite like. "Mercy is not getting the punishment we deserve. Grace is getting the reward that we don't deserve."
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: The limit of Free Agency

Post by DarkJedi » 21 Nov 2018, 16:08

Roy wrote:
21 Nov 2018, 10:11
DarkJedi wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 13:20
An DA might say "Justice was served today as this man is going to prison for the rest of his life without parole" or someone might say "She got her just deserts." There's another definition of justice - fairness.
I heard a saying that I quite like. "Mercy is not getting the punishment we deserve. Grace is getting the reward that we don't deserve."
Like. :thumbup:
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SamBee
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Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: The limit of Free Agency

Post by SamBee » 24 Nov 2018, 16:46

When I look at this I keep coming back to socratic denialism e.g. free agency is not X, not Y and can't do Z. It seems easier to view in those terms.

Appearance. I can change my clothing style, but not my build.

Psychology. I can attempt to understand it, but still struggle with certain things I am aware of but can't control.

Money. I can budget more efficiently, but I have limited control over what others are willing to pay me.

Environment. I have some but not total control over my surroundings.

Others. I can lead the proverbial horse to water but not make it drink. I can influence others but they have to choose whether or not my advice is worth following.

On the flipside, total agency would probably lead to immense arrogance, exploitation and cruelty on my part. Sometimes less is more.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: The limit of Free Agency

Post by Curt Sunshine » 27 Nov 2018, 21:19

Excellent comment, Sam. Thank you.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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