Alan Watts

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SamBee
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Alan Watts

Post by SamBee » 22 Jun 2018, 02:32

dande48 wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 19:45
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 15:33
I heard a lecture by Alan Watts, a 60s new age philosopher, on the nature of god. He proposed that God pushed a 'random existence generator button', and here we are; living this existence, all of us gods who don't remember pushing the button.
Alan Watts was quite a guy! I hadn't heard that particular lecture, but he's given quite a few that follows along those lines. He's really helped me to come to terms with, and be ok even if there is no "afterlife", as we call it. I remember a lecture, where he states that Jesus' greatest epitome, the height of his doctrine, was "I am a child of God, and so are all of you". That really there is no you as separate from me, as we are all simply aspects of one great whole. This mind and body, yes, will come to an end. But since I'm the universe, I can't really die. My death is not much more than the death of a cell, or the shedding of skin. The whole remains, to experience itself (my self), again and again, countless times at once, and countless more again.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 22 Jun 2018, 11:07

I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul.

In the words of JS: it feels so good not to be trammeled.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

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SamBee
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by SamBee » 22 Jun 2018, 11:31

A five minute talk by Alan Watts on "Why Society Needs Outsiders".

https://youtu.be/qQFcNFAzXGo
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by dande48 » 22 Jun 2018, 16:03

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:07
I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul.
It might seem new age, but it honestly looks like the default option. We know the universe came into existance. We know that we were made from the matter of the universe, matter which existed long before "we" did, and matter which will continue to be a part of that same universe long after we are gone. We also know that the matter that was organized into our "selves" has somehow become conscious, and will one day no longer be conscious, but that other "selves" created from the same stock of matter have existed before us, and will probably continue to exist long after.

The concept of our immortal spirit "selves", the continuation of consciousness before and after death, the loving and anthropomorphic Creator... that's all metaphysical. It may or may not be true. But the basic truths, which Alan Watts emphasized, are comforting to me.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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dande48
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by dande48 » 22 Jun 2018, 16:15

SamBee wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 02:31
- I disagree about drugs with him given how many are destroyed by them -
He did drink and womanize quite a lot... it wasn't very Buddhist of him. But he did have quite a few incredible insights, and was very skilled at teaching. I guess a tree can bare good fruit and bad.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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SamBee
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by SamBee » 23 Jun 2018, 03:26

dande48 wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 16:15
SamBee wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 02:31
- I disagree about drugs with him given how many are destroyed by them -
He did drink and womanize quite a lot... it wasn't very Buddhist of him. But he did have quite a few incredible insights, and was very skilled at teaching. I guess a tree can bare good fruit and bad.
This... but I suppose it depends how far someone leans one way or another.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, some people even me, have found some interesting things in Scientology... we juat don't want the full package.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Heber13
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by Heber13 » 23 Jun 2018, 06:21

dande48 wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 16:03
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:07
I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul.
It might seem new age, but it honestly looks like the default option. We know the universe came into existance. We know that we were made from the matter of the universe, matter which existed long before "we" did, and matter which will continue to be a part of that same universe long after we are gone. We also know that the matter that was organized into our "selves" has somehow become conscious, and will one day no longer be conscious, but that other "selves" created from the same stock of matter have existed before us, and will probably continue to exist long after.

The concept of our immortal spirit "selves", the continuation of consciousness before and after death, the loving and anthropomorphic Creator... that's all metaphysical. It may or may not be true. But the basic truths, which Alan Watts emphasized, are comforting to me.
I grew up in the church always hearing what a comfort it is to know the plan of salvation. And how sad we feel for those who don't know what is next after we die, and that we are still on selves and can be with our families.

How do you think some find it "ok" or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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nibbler
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by nibbler » 23 Jun 2018, 07:16

Heber13 wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 06:21
How do you think some find it "ok" or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
There are lots of factors. How satisfied are you with your life? Are you clinically depressed? What are your beliefs about the afterlife, is it a time when all wrongs will magically be made right? Do you believe the afterlife will be a time where you are rewarded for hardships you have endured in life? etc.

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dande48
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by dande48 » 23 Jun 2018, 09:05

Heber13 wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 06:21
I grew up in the church always hearing what a comfort it is to know the plan of salvation. And how sad we feel for those who don't know what is next after we die, and that we are still on selves and can be with our families.

How do you think some find it "ok" or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
I think it's understandable for people to believe they know what happens after we die, even though I really don't think they do. IMHO, the sources pointing towards the plan of salvation aren't exactly reliable, but it does give a lot of comfort to those who have a hard time letting go. Or maybe that belief is what keeps people from "letting go". Who's to say?

I think expectations can really wear on a person, if they are not met; but when we come to terms with "the worst", we'll find that we'll be ok. Many "believers" have painted this awful, grim picture of the perspective of unbelievers. Don't believe in God or the afterlife? You are depressed, miserable, immoral, selfish, greedy... your life will be without purpose, and you'll probably end up hanging yourself. The "believers" have invested so much into their beliefs, depended on them for so much for so long, that for many it is impossible to consider they might be wrong. But if you take a moment and consider "what if?", it's really not that bad. In fact, considering that this life and your time might be all that you get... doesn't that make you see the beauty of it, and appreciate it more?

If there is a God and an afterlife, I'll be pleasantly suprised.

Image

If not, meh, I'll take it anyways. ;)
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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Heber13
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Re: Alan Watts

Post by Heber13 » 25 Jun 2018, 07:44

I'm a huge C&H fan. Thanks for that!!

It's actually a very good response...I'll take it anyway...because...we are here, now.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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