The White Bear Problem

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
Curt Sunshine
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 Jan 2018, 18:34

Yep, Sam, that is correct.

It also has lower lengths of sunshine, due to the mountains on the eastern side of the major population centers, cold winters, and air inversion issues that also impact depression. Seasonal depression is a major factor. Depression in the western mountain states, overall, is higher than most other areas in the USA.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 11 Jan 2018, 02:21

This is an interesting discussion. I also suffer with depression as well as anxiety and meds have definitely helped me, even though the mild side effects drive me nuts sometimes. Well, I knew the amount of sunshine could affect depression, but I never knew elevation could affect it too. Interesting.

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SamBee
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by SamBee » 11 Jan 2018, 07:19

Ilovechrist77 wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 02:21
This is an interesting discussion. I also suffer with depression as well as anxiety and meds have definitely helped me, even though the mild side effects drive me nuts sometimes. Well, I knew the amount of sunshine could affect depression, but I never knew elevation could affect it too. Interesting.
I suspect it is to do with oxygen levels. If hemoglobin cannot process it as quickly, it slows down the system. Compound this with today's sedentary indoor lifestyle, particularly in winter and you have a problem.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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SamBee
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by SamBee » 11 Jan 2018, 07:24

I've highlighted one part as it is often blamed on Mormonism!

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitn ... -20141204/
Could you describe the Utah paradox?
Look at any survey published in the last 30 years, and you’ll see there’s a high quality of life associated with living in the mountains. At the same time, if you use the Center of Disease Control data, Utah leaves the nation behind in depression and suicide — there’s more suicidal acts, more antidepressant use. The whole region of the Rocky Mountains has high rates of suicide. So how can it be that we love living there but we have more depression and suicide? We started to focus on the idea of thin air — that partial oxygen is less the higher you go in altitude. And people studying brain chemistry and looking at blood changes in high-level enthusiasts, see the phenomenon of hypoxia.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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LookingHard
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by LookingHard » 11 Jan 2018, 09:15

Interplaying with the altitude issue affecting depression there is the related, but separate issue of suicide. Starting in 2008, there has been a huge increase of teen/young adult suicides. I do think Mormonism has some (the majority?) of the cause for that. Prop 8 was around 2008 and that is when the rhetoric of the church started talking much more about "family values" (read anti-gay marriage).

I like to say that the altitude in Utah didn't change starting in 2008, but the attitude did.

https://rationalfaiths.com/defending-pr ... e-reasons/

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dande48
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by dande48 » 11 Jan 2018, 14:28

You know what I think is a major contributor to the depression epidemic in Utah? That darned refinery just north of Salt Lake City. When that thing runs, the entire valley fills up with smog. I remember it raining mud more than a few times. There's too many people living in that desert valley.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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SamBee
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by SamBee » 11 Jan 2018, 14:44

dande48 wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 14:28
You know what I think is a major contributor to the depression epidemic in Utah? That darned refinery just north of Salt Lake City. When that thing runs, the entire valley fills up with smog. I remember it raining mud more than a few times. There's too many people living in that desert valley.
I have never been to SLC, but I don't doubt that can't be good.

I used to go to elementary school near a big coal fire plant. Well it was actually about three miles away. You could have the clearest of sunny days and there would be this cloud hanging over the area. For a little boy it was not the best.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 12 Jan 2018, 02:00

Hahah. And many people say the smog in LA was bad. Wow!

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Beefster
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by Beefster » 17 Jan 2018, 18:41

SamBee wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 07:24
I've highlighted one part as it is often blamed on Mormonism!

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitn ... -20141204/
Could you describe the Utah paradox?
Look at any survey published in the last 30 years, and you’ll see there’s a high quality of life associated with living in the mountains. At the same time, if you use the Center of Disease Control data, Utah leaves the nation behind in depression and suicide — there’s more suicidal acts, more antidepressant use. The whole region of the Rocky Mountains has high rates of suicide. So how can it be that we love living there but we have more depression and suicide? We started to focus on the idea of thin air — that partial oxygen is less the higher you go in altitude. And people studying brain chemistry and looking at blood changes in high-level enthusiasts, see the phenomenon of hypoxia.
I doubt the altitude plays much of a role for me. I felt a lot better when I graduated and went back to Colorado (higher altitude than Utah). There are some confounding variables for sure, like exercising more, having a girlfriend, and finding a treatment that actually works reasonably well (folate supplements). But getting out of the cesspool of Provo was probably the biggest aspect of feeling better.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Often I hear doubt being presented as the opposite of faith but I think certainty does a better job of filling that role. Doubts can help faith grow, certainty almost always makes faith shrink. --nibbler

squarepeg
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by squarepeg » 17 Jan 2018, 20:20

Beefster wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 18:41

I doubt the altitude plays much of a role for me. I felt a lot better when I graduated and went back to Colorado (higher altitude than Utah). There are some confounding variables for sure, like exercising more, having a girlfriend, and finding a treatment that actually works reasonably well (folate supplements). But getting out of the cesspool of Provo was probably the biggest aspect of feeling better.
Another variable might have to do with individual tendencies in levels of serotonin, dopamine, and cortisol. You might be somebody who benefits from higher dopamine whose serotonin is already ok.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2014/11 ... e-can.html

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