The White Bear Problem

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by Beefster » 18 Jan 2018, 00:03

That would make the most sense. All the serotonin related pills I tried did nothing or made me high-strung.

Folate affects dopamine production. ADHD traits (I exhibit many) are partly caused by a shortage of dopamine in the brain. Definitely a dopamine issue for me.

It also turns out that modest amounts of sugar increase my focus... But I can't have too much or else the effect reverses and makes me depressed and unstable.

Cuddling helps a ton, but I haven't had a cuddle buddy in nearly 6 months. I'm oxytocin starved.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Often I hear doubt being presented as the opposite of faith but I think certainty does a better job of filling that role. Doubts can help faith grow, certainty almost always makes faith shrink. --nibbler

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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by AmyJ » 18 Jan 2018, 06:54

squarepeg wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 20:20
Another variable might have to do with individual tendencies in levels of serotonin, dopamine, and cortisol. You might be somebody who benefits from higher dopamine whose serotonin is already ok.
I was taking a SSRI to increase my seratonin - it worked for about a month or two, but then the side effects really started kicking in and I felt that it wasn't as beneficial. Then I started the Pathways program which requires me to stay up and be alert past my bedtime one day a week - so I started taking 1 small packet of Crystal Lite with caffeine. It didn't take me long to realize that the small dose of caffeine was helping me manage my anxiety and executive function issues better then the SSRI was helping me and with fewer side effects for me personally. I know it should not work that way, but I saw it was. In my research, I found that there is a caffeine "sweet spot" for some people before it increases anxiety, and that the packets were in the spot for me. So I am in the process of trying to figure out how to test whether my brain wiring runs low on dopamine and/or runs through dopamine quicker than most. I am also evaluating whether some of the issues I have had over the last 2 years were because my brain chemistry got out of whack on the dopamine and other non-seratonin levels.

I have brought up to my doctor that I got off the SSRI medicine successfully and that 1 packet of Crystal Lite with caffeine works for me. He is a practical 7th Day Adventist man who advised me to do what works if it is working for me as a self-medicating measure. We are looking into other anti-anxiety medicines in case I have a really rough time and need something as a stop-gap.

I have also had a series of fun conversations with my TBM husband. He got the memo that "energy drinks are bad" in the Word of Wisdom and was worried about me becoming addicted to caffeine. He has been through caffeine withdrawal - and it is no fun. We were miserable for 2 weeks while he was in the process. I can respect his point of view - but I also felt that his circumstance did not apply because he had been at much higher levels for much longer. I was playing devil's advocate when I pointed out to him that his ADHD medication is an analog to recreational drugs - what made it "legal" was that he was using them responsibly as a patient, had a source supervised by the FDA, and was in contact with his doctor who provided prescriptions for it. I reminded him that we are used to non-traditional brain wiring as a family, and that I would happily go down and get our doctor to write up a prescription for Crystal Lite packets if he wanted to see it to "legalize" it. That I had done some homework, and the amount I was taking was under the addiction threshold, and I already put in breaks from the packets when I can handle the anxiety on my own. I understood where he was coming from, because that used to match my understanding. Eventually, he realized I was not being haphazard about it (I am medicine shy in general), and that I was treating the potential caffeine addiction as a potential consequence sincerely and minimizing it. It helped when he did his own research though...

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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by LookingHard » 18 Jan 2018, 08:08

Great that you could find out the bit of caffeine helps you.

I almost laughed at, "I know it should not work that way, but I saw it was." I think even psychologists will admit they don't know what will work on someone and they often have to go through a variety of drugs to find the one that works the best with the least side effects.

Crystal Lite Citrus Splash flavor contains 40 mg of caffeine per 8-oz. serving — a little less than the 50 to 80 mg of caffeine contained in a typical cup of coffee.

Rockstar Energy drink is about 250 mg.

Starbucks Coffee Blonde Roast 20 oz. - 475 mg of caffeine

So your bit of Crystal Lite isn't all that much.

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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by AmyJ » 18 Jan 2018, 08:40

With dealing with my husband's ADHD, we figured out that brain chemistry is real and works. I know that in my family, we have a whole slew of mental stuff ranging from Depression,Anxiety, Bi-Polar, ADHD, and Asperger's Autism in various stages of diagnosis. Which when I thought about it, made me realize that my brain wiring is probably non-typical as well and should be treated as such.

What research my husband could find suggested that the addiction point for caffeine is 100 mg a day - so the 60 mg is under that point, and the trace amounts of caffeine I might get from other sources should still keep it under that threshold.

For now, the cost benefit analysis points that this current self-medication protocol seems to work as well or better than the anti-anxiety medications prescribed for me, and has fewer side effects (wears off sooner and doesn't build up in my system so far) for me personally (and is cheaper than even a copay - 2.69 for 10 packets).

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Re: The White Bear Problem

Post by SamBee » 19 Jan 2018, 10:39

I only get caffeine from soft drinks these days and I am even wondering about that. For all it picks me up, I tend to pay for it later either in sleep loss or anxiety etc and I develop some dependence relatively quickly. Two cans of Coca Cola or two bottles and I'm pushing it.
Which when I thought about it, made me realize that my brain wiring is probably non-typical as well and should be treated as such.
Is there such a thing as typical? I have great problems finding decent shoes or clothes - they are all designed for "average" people... the only trouble being that very few people fit into these "averages".

Talking of brain chemistry, I find it ironic that food in the USA is full of additives which affect the body and the mind and then Americans take expensive medication to counteract the side effects of those additives!
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true is...authorized to administer the Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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