Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

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AmyJ
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Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by AmyJ » 06 Nov 2017, 12:20

And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
I have been thinking about this over the last few days. If I parse it out correctly, "[Charity] seeketh not her [Charity's] own" - the question becomes "own - what"?

* Own people/kind - becomes a mini-reminder that diversity in viewpoints is good, and to push the comfort zone of interactions by reaching out to people who are unlike you.
* Own interests - sainted mother examples of when the mother serves the rest of the family before her own interests.
* own desires - could be a mini-reminder against selfishness

What else could "own" be referencing?

UNRELATED SIDE NOTE: I was really thinking about charity this weekend, and while I made many good and some even charitable choices - my patience and tolerance was less than usual. Maybe it was because I was trying too hard, or the weekend was just more challenging than usual.

Roy
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by Roy » 06 Nov 2017, 13:09

I think that this is a good description of charity. I think that charity is a good thing to aspire to. I do not think that individuals should feel overly guilty for failing to be charitable in every instance.

My wife will sometimes feel very guilty for having to turn down someone's service request. She will say something like, "am I being Christ like?" I respond by telling her that she is not Jesus.
AmyJ wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:20
Own interests - sainted mother examples of when the mother serves the rest of the family before her own interests.
Even Jesus got frustrated, delayed, had to rest, had to tell people no, and let other people serve him. There has to be a balance. Neglecting self care and inability to set boundaries is not a virtue.

Once we establish that these are principles and ideals and not attainable by anybody all the time - then I feel that they can be very helpful.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by DarkJedi » 06 Nov 2017, 17:45

I think this is where other translations can be quite helpful. 1 Cor 13:5:

NIV: It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

NAS: does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

ISV: and she is never rude; she never thinks just of herself or ever gets annoyed. She never is resentful;

NET: It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful.

NRSV: or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;

Source (except NRSV): http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/13-5.htm
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Nov 2017, 18:43

You might like the following posts from my personal blog - from when I focused on 1 Corinthians 13 intently. The links below are to posts about charity seeking not her own:

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010 ... r-own.html

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010 ... eople.html

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010 ... -ones.html
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

AmyJ
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by AmyJ » 07 Nov 2017, 06:56

Thank you! I really appreciate all the thoughts and comments so far :D

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On Own Now
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by On Own Now » 07 Nov 2017, 07:23

DJ beat me to the alternate translations.

I will add that everywhere EXCEPT in the King's English of the KJV, the Greek Ἡ ἀγάπη (hei agapei) is translated as 'love' rather than 'charity'. In verse 8, which we know as "Charity never faileth", it is rendered in modern translations as "Love never fails" or "Love never falls away" or "Love never ends".

I personally think that "Love never ends" is the appropriate sense of the original. This section falls in the middle of a discussion by Paul of spiritual gifts, which he views as being temporary this-life helpers for us. Then, in 12:31, he says, "I will show you a more excellent way". This is followed by the apparent insertion of a poem or hymn about love (chap 13), which states that while our spiritual gifts of tongues and prophecies and even our finite understanding of things will eventually be of no value when we achieve our end goal, love transcends from this life into our completed/perfected future.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

Roy
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by Roy » 07 Nov 2017, 09:35

On Own Now wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 07:23
DJ beat me to the alternate translations.

I will add that everywhere EXCEPT in the King's English of the KJV, the Greek Ἡ ἀγάπη (hei agapei) is translated as 'love' rather than 'charity'. In verse 8, which we know as "Charity never faileth", it is rendered in modern translations as "Love never fails" or "Love never falls away" or "Love never ends".

I personally think that "Love never ends" is the appropriate sense of the original. This section falls in the middle of a discussion by Paul of spiritual gifts, which he views as being temporary this-life helpers for us. Then, in 12:31, he says, "I will show you a more excellent way". This is followed by the apparent insertion of a poem or hymn about love (chap 13), which states that while our spiritual gifts of tongues and prophecies and even our finite understanding of things will eventually be of no value when we achieve our end goal, love transcends from this life into our completed/perfected future.
Ok. Back on my soapbox. :D

If we just tried to LOVE more instead of breaking this down into yet another checklist that we fail to do perfectly then I believe it would make all the difference.

Love, without agenda, without conditions, without guilt. :thumbup:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by DarkJedi » 07 Nov 2017, 10:12

Roy wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 09:35
On Own Now wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 07:23
DJ beat me to the alternate translations.

I will add that everywhere EXCEPT in the King's English of the KJV, the Greek Ἡ ἀγάπη (hei agapei) is translated as 'love' rather than 'charity'. In verse 8, which we know as "Charity never faileth", it is rendered in modern translations as "Love never fails" or "Love never falls away" or "Love never ends".

I personally think that "Love never ends" is the appropriate sense of the original. This section falls in the middle of a discussion by Paul of spiritual gifts, which he views as being temporary this-life helpers for us. Then, in 12:31, he says, "I will show you a more excellent way". This is followed by the apparent insertion of a poem or hymn about love (chap 13), which states that while our spiritual gifts of tongues and prophecies and even our finite understanding of things will eventually be of no value when we achieve our end goal, love transcends from this life into our completed/perfected future.
Ok. Back on my soapbox. :D

If we just tried to LOVE more instead of breaking this down into yet another checklist that we fail to do perfectly then I believe it would make all the difference.

Love, without agenda, without conditions, without guilt. :thumbup:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Make room on that soapbox.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by Curt Sunshine » 07 Nov 2017, 11:18

Amen, Roy. A-freaking-men!
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

AmyJ
Posts: 283
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Charity - Moroni 7:45/ 1 Corinthians 13:4

Post by AmyJ » 07 Nov 2017, 12:44

I love this thread!

[Stands on Personal Soap Box]

I started pondering the topic of Charity and making personal changes in this area as part of grounding myself during my faith upheaval. I figure I don't know all the answers - heck I am not even sure I know all the questions to ask. But while I sort out doctrinal stuff on the back burner, I can work on being charitable - that will benefit me and everyone else no matter which path I take.

I spent 2 weeks doing all kinds of research off an on because I knew we were going to do a report on it, and months thinking about it, for my personal growth. I found some cool stuff about Charity along the way (another post, another day)...

I go to do the project plan today (for some reason I thought there would be some form of report required about it), and all the homework was just setting up specific goals for being more charitable. Basically, designing my own personal checklist to judge myself against.

I didn't want to design a checklist though. I wanted to write about the things I learned and some ways of viewing and incorporating the sub-principles into my life.

[Steps off Personal Soap Box]

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