Looks, charm and celestial glory

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SamBee
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Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by SamBee » 11 Jun 2017, 04:42

Argh! We were talking again about how men must be sealed to obtain the highest etc etc.

I actually made a comment that this seemed more predicated on someone's looks and social abilities than their spiritual worthiness.

I have an inactive friend with a genetic condition - neurofibromatosis*. He is very shy because of his condition and it is very visible, and the NF gives him growths all over his skin. He is even less likely than me to get married - how is someone like him ever likely to attain this highest degree, even with becoming active?

* Details here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofibromatosis
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by DarkJedi » 11 Jun 2017, 09:27

For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly (in a riddle), but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Roy
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by Roy » 11 Jun 2017, 12:27

1) We believe that individuals that, through no fault of their own, do not have the opportunity to obtain certain ordinances in this life will have that opportunity provided for them in the next. This applies to single women, this applies to children that die, this also must apply in situations like the one you describe.

2) Our church doctrine/theology and structure does not do a great job of reaching and ennobling singles. Our best effort seems to come down to their singleness being removed in the next life.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

NightSG
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by NightSG » 18 Jun 2017, 21:36

Roy wrote:
11 Jun 2017, 12:27
1) We believe that individuals that, through no fault of their own, do not have the opportunity to obtain certain ordinances in this life will have that opportunity provided for them in the next. This applies to single women, this applies to children that die, this also must apply in situations like the one you describe.

2) Our church doctrine/theology and structure does not do a great job of reaching and ennobling singles. Our best effort seems to come down to their singleness being removed in the next life.
Which ultimately comes across to far too many as "the best thing you can do for your situation is die."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by DarkJedi » 19 Jun 2017, 05:58

NightSG wrote:
18 Jun 2017, 21:36
Roy wrote:
11 Jun 2017, 12:27
1) We believe that individuals that, through no fault of their own, do not have the opportunity to obtain certain ordinances in this life will have that opportunity provided for them in the next. This applies to single women, this applies to children that die, this also must apply in situations like the one you describe.

2) Our church doctrine/theology and structure does not do a great job of reaching and ennobling singles. Our best effort seems to come down to their singleness being removed in the next life.
Which ultimately comes across to far too many as "the best thing you can do for your situation is die."
Huh? Really, NightSG, I have never heard such an expression by anyone.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Ray DeGraw
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by Ray DeGraw » 19 Jun 2017, 08:58

DJ, I have heard of that conclusion specifically in cases of homosexual members who are told, essentially, that they are an abomination currently (and an enemy) and will be "fixed" in the next life. (and I recognize the cruel irony of that wording)

I haven't heard it in other situations, like people who are heterosexual but never marry.

Fwiw, that conclusion (the next life is much better than this one) has motivated murder-suicide by people who suffer from clinical depression, particularly mothers suffering from post-partum depression. It's one of the reasons I dislike that framing.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by SamBee » 19 Jun 2017, 14:22

I don't like it much either... I think a significant chunk of society is mildly bisexual though rather than purely gay, which means not only can a mainly heterosexual person fall for someone of their own gender, but that a mainly homosexual person can find someone of the opposite gender... I think the latter concept is no longer politically correct but the former is often seen in Hollywood etc... the idea that there can be that one person who "turns" you from your usual orientation, but no one else does is an interesting one.

I think sexuality can change - in my younger days, red headed women and black ones didn't attract me much physically but now I see the beauty in both groupsm
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

NightSG
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015, 09:35

Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by NightSG » 19 Jun 2017, 23:45

DarkJedi wrote:
19 Jun 2017, 05:58
Which ultimately comes across to far too many as "the best thing you can do for your situation is die."
Huh? Really, NightSG, I have never heard such an expression by anyone.
http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/06/1 ... he-church/
Today’s Relief Society/Priesthood Meeting is on eternal families. Someone is sure to state, or to read a quotation from some general conference talk, about how no blessing of which we are worthy but which we are denied in this life will be withheld from us in the eternities. This statement will come up in the context of singles, although it is relevant to married people as well.
I believe this principle. I have hope in the religious sense that it is true. I know it is offered for comfort and inspiration.
I hate it.
What I hear when the statement comes from a general authority is, “We have nothing for you – you’ll be better off dead.”
What I hear when the statement comes from a ward member is, “I don’t know what’s wrong with you singles and I don’t really care. This is my nod to your existence. I don’t have to say anything that is relevant to your life – having made this obligatory nod, I can ignore you and go on with talking about how wonderful marriage is.”
It's been quoted and paraphrased in plenty of other singles' blogs and articles, to the point that I had no clue who actually originated the comment I'd seen quoted plenty of times until I started digging to give it the proper attribution.

Take the time to read the comments, and it's pretty clear that a lot of people feel the same way.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks, charm and celestial glory

Post by DarkJedi » 20 Jun 2017, 14:46

I suppose it's best of they stay away from Abby & Martha Brewer's boarding house then. ;) That was sort of the reason they said they did what they did after all.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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