Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

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richalger
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Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by richalger » 16 Nov 2016, 13:48

"Brothers and sisters, we are eternal beings, without beginning and without end. We have always existed.1 We are the literal spirit children of divine, immortal, and omnipotent Heavenly Parents!
We come from the heavenly courts of the Lord our God. We are of the royal house of Elohim, the Most High God. We walked with Him in our premortal life. We heard Him speak, witnessed His majesty, learned His ways."
("O How Great the Plan of Our God!", President Uchtdorf, https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng )

"omnipotent Heavenly Parents!" stood out to me. I felt of the power that our Heavenly Mother shares unitedly with Heavenly Father.

Roy
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by Roy » 16 Nov 2016, 15:52

Starting with the Essay on Heavenly Mother, I believe that there is an organized effort to put forward the concept of a divine couple.

This is borne out by the increase in mention of Heavenly Parents in GC. http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4 ... on-leaders

As a man, I honestly feel somewhat ambivalent about the development. I do not personally have a hunger for a female deity.

Heavenly Mother is an odd doctrine because she is not mentioned in any of our standard works. (The reference materials that all of our doctrine is supposed to come from) This puts us in a somewhat odd situation. Even in the quote you just mentioned our omnipotent Heavenly parents are introduced but then we turn immediately to the "courts of the Lord our God", "the royal house of Elohim", "walked with Him", "heard Him speak", "witnesses His majesty", "learned His ways."

Where does Heavenly Mother come into play? Does she have co-ownership of the courts and the royal house? Did we walk with her? Hear her speak? witness her majesty? or learn of her ways? Does she do anything?

It is an interesting development indeed.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

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Ann
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by Ann » 16 Nov 2016, 22:41

I'm no scholar, but I just don't see how we don't end up going there. Isn't it impossible not to, given how we've defined Heavenly Father? There is a father with a male body and children, but no mother? "The thought makes reason stare," and all that. I know I'm just stating the obvious.

I can't say that I've always yearned for Heavenly Mother, but I do now.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Reuben
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by Reuben » 17 Nov 2016, 04:14

My cynical side thinks this renewed emphasis on heavenly parents is part of the push to emphasize traditional marriage, which is partly in reaction to gay marriage being more widely accepted.

My provocative side says it's possible we don't know much about Heavenly Mother because we actually have two Heavenly Daddies.

Seriously, though, as someone who approves of both nontraditional marriage and female deity, I'm not sure how to take this.
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LookingHard
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by LookingHard » 17 Nov 2016, 06:51

Reuben wrote:... My provocative side says it's possible we don't know much about Heavenly Mother because we actually have two Heavenly Daddies.
:lol:

Maybe it is because I very recently listened to Bill Reel's MormonDiscussionPodcast I think this gets tangled up with with the Adam God doctrine and the top church leaders want to stay the hell away from that. I don't want to go there.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Nov 2016, 07:40

I'm not at all opposed to things like what Pres. Uchtdorf and others have said and that there does seem to be some new emphasis placed on the female divine. Whenever church leaders expand the tiny world view of the true believers I am happy. The truth is that I have just as much trouble connecting with the female divine as I do the male divine. It may have to do with my deist views of God or it may have to do with my own very dysfunctional family dynamics. It sure would be nice if God would manifest himself or herself far more than he or she does. The other issue I have is that I don't believe the creation of spirits has anything to do with sex, I believe sex is something we only know and do physically on earth (so I suppose from a certain point of view all the afterlife would therefore be hell). I'm pretty sure there is no LDS doctrine relating to that last idea, there me be some LDS theology I am unaware of.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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nibbler
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by nibbler » 17 Nov 2016, 07:48

Reuben wrote:My cynical side thinks this renewed emphasis on heavenly parents is part of the push to emphasize traditional marriage, which is partly in reaction to gay marriage being more widely accepted.
I was thinking this as well. It's hard to bury heavenly mother when making a case against gay marriage.

I don't mean to derail the thread but this is semi-related. Does Mormon doctrine define god as being omnipotent? I can imagine people offering up a decent argument in either direction.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Nov 2016, 08:18

nibbler wrote: I don't mean to derail the thread but this is semi-related. Does Mormon doctrine define god as being omnipotent? I can imagine people offering up a decent argument in either direction.
I could imagine people here making an argument one way or the other, but my perception of the average orthodox member is that they believe God is indeed all powerful and can do anything. I don't disbelieve that myself, although I do question it. There is a part of me that wonders of God is not actually omnipotent and that's the reason he doesn't do more than he does.

I would wager McConkie had an opinion on the subject, but I threw out his great opinion essays (AKA Mormon Doctrine). There is however much of his opinion left in the Bible Dictionary and Topical Guide. From the BD:
Although God created all things and is the ruler of the universe, being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent (through His Spirit), mankind has a special relationship to Him that differentiates man from all other created things: man is literally God’s offspring, made in His image, whereas all other things are but the work of His hands
I will note that it is my understanding that at least some LDS Bible Dictionary entries are modified from another source, with LDS theology (or the opinions of those who modified it) intertwined. The "omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent" wording does not seem to me to be how an LDS leader might normally phrase it. And while the entry on God does reference the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, there is no mention of a female God.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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nibbler
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by nibbler » 17 Nov 2016, 08:33

DarkJedi wrote:I could imagine people here making an argument one way or the other, but my perception of the average orthodox member is that they believe God is indeed all powerful and can do anything.
Maybe this is venturing into nuanced territory but I think there are points of orthodox doctrine that makes god subject to things, "The Law" for example, or even us provided we do what god says. Does a certain level of capriciousness come bundled with omnipotence? For example, why would an omnipotent god need to provide a savior to satisfy the demands of justice? Or perhaps god is the author of the laws to which god is also subject to.

That's a different discussion.
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel... that makes me feel ANGRY!
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Ann
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Re: Omnipotent Heavenly Parents!

Post by Ann » 17 Nov 2016, 08:38

DarkJedi wrote:The truth is that I have just as much trouble connecting with the female divine as I do the male divine.
I might, too, but I'd like to try in an atmosphere that included a divine feminine. What makes so little sense to some women is ascribing lifelike attributes to Father and then having Mother be a complete cipher.
The other issue I have is that I don't believe the creation of spirits has anything to do with sex ...
It takes a huge leap of faith anymore for me to even believe in an afterlife or resurrection, so I definitely don't believe in actual sex to create spirits. But when our story is that some kind of replication, organization, or whatever, created us in their image, I don't see how we can not flesh out the idea of a mother.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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