Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

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Jordan
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Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by Jordan » 23 Aug 2009, 00:45

In his 1955 Sunday School manual called "Christ's Ideals for Living," Obert Tanner wrote the following in his chapter "Sincerity":

"The leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would offer this suggestion: Start where you are. What do you believe? Start with that and take it as far as you can down life's highway. Another truth will meet you at nearly every bend in the road. God has never intended that an honest mind should be humiliated or made unwelcome in the Church by any other member because of honest inquiry. Above all, keep the virtues of integrity, sincerity, and genuineness. Nothing else can be right in a man's life if he is not sincere."

Just perfect. An admonishment to stay true AND reverence for the sacrament of doubt (in the same paragraph, no less).

More on this book in Book Reviews.

RuthandI
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by RuthandI » 23 Aug 2009, 12:37

I LOVE this quote, Jordan! I've never even hear of Obert C Tanner. I'll check out your book review and then, maybe, read it! Thanks for sharing.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by Curt Sunshine » 23 Aug 2009, 13:01

That reminds me SO much of Elder Wirthlin's "Concern for the One" and the description of God's great orchestra.

Thank you for sharing it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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just me
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by just me » 24 Aug 2009, 17:12

I might have to copy that and keep it with my scriptures! Thanks for sharing.
Most of us, sooner or later, find that at critical points in our lives we must strike out on our own to make a path where none exists.~Elaine Pagels

Ultimately, you are the path-the path begins and ends with you.~Stephan Bodian

He who think he knows, doesn’t know: He who knows he doesn’t know, knows.~Sanskrit proverb

johndehlin
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by johndehlin » 28 Aug 2009, 07:50

Love the quote. Gotta add this to the essay. Don't let me forget.

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Heber13
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by Heber13 » 28 Aug 2009, 09:03

Jordan wrote:God has never intended that an honest mind should be humiliated or made unwelcome in the Church by any other member because of honest inquiry."
Why does it seem like raising certain questions at church is not openly welcomed in many cases? Is it the tone the query is raised that makes it uncomfortable in church? Is it that lessons get derailed and teachers don't like it? Is it that people just don't like "boat-rockers"?

I can't seem to put my finger on the cultural aspect, but it bothers me. Here's what I mean and where I'm coming from with this:
A few weeks ago in church we had a parents meeting from the YW leaders on the up and coming events and expectations of the leaders with the Young Women. A great proactive meeting for the leaders to connect with parents. At one point, dress standards for an activity was explained. A recent convert, who was a mother of a recently baptized youth, raised her hand and asked why the dress standards are so "old fashioned" - that her daughter really had a hard time adjusting her wardrobe to "mormon standards" and actually wondered if the "old men" that lead the chuch are so out of touch with style and modern trends, that it was not realistic. It was a sincere question.

There was an immediate outbreak of laughter, kind of like other parents thought she was being sarcastic and funny...but I felt so sorry for her when I saw her whole body shrink in her chair. People then stopped laughing, realizing she wasn't kidding and they didn't intend to mock her, but then nothing was done to address the concern. The YW Pres was uncomfortable, and simply brushed it aside as, "Well, the church is led by revelation, and these are the standards that are best to help our children." Clearly, the answer didn't satisfy the new member, but I could tell she was not going to raise her hand again...she was being taught, "Don't be silly, just go along with the crowd" and also "others know a lot more than you, so your questions are silly."

Why is it in church that those questions are uncomfortable to handle? I see it in Gospel Doctrine also, and I have stopped participating, whereas I used to want to contribute. Why aren't those events looked at as opportunities to help teach and clarify ideas...not brush them aside or make them embarrassing? I can't put my finger on why it is our culture isn't more open to that. Anyone have any ideas?

I really like the quote Jordan gave, but how does it get implemented? Is it realistic?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Captain Curmudgeon
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by Captain Curmudgeon » 28 Aug 2009, 14:30

Very interesting person, O.C. Tanner. Growing up in SLC, I knew him mainly through ads for jewelry, which held little interest for me. There's a park named for him within a 30 minute walk from my house.

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borninit
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by borninit » 30 Aug 2009, 09:03

I found in the Gospel Doctrine class that it became a contest to see who knew the most and who could be the most impressive. I was caught in this too as I was one who also "knew the most," and I had to keep my hand up to say my big important life altering thing that everyone could go home and worship ME about. I wasn't the only one, I had some pretty good rivals.
Honest questions are not asked because because they show that you are not up in the "know." They would say that "those who are not up on their knowledge of Gospel Doctrine should go to the Gospel Essentials where the new members or the spiritually enept go. Go and fit into your part and come in here only when you can keep up and compete."
I eventually got to a point when I had to just shut my mouth. I wasn't impressing anyone and no one was changing their behavior because of what I thought was a grand idea. I found out that I didn't really know more than they did and I was preaching to the choir.
I am sorry that we as the orthodox membership can be so heartless and mean. We look at the world in our sphere. In that sphere everyone is the same as us and we communicate a common language that isn't harsh to each other but is harsh to those that we haven't yet let in. We understand each other and forgive each other. Our noses are turned up to those that we haven't let in because they have to earn their place in our sphere. Our sphere is comfortable to us and sometimes we see no need to come out or change anything within.
I am coming out of the sphere because I am learning to see that I can't grow any more inside of the sphere. After all, a sphere contains only so much volume, and when that volume has been used up something gives or something stops growing.
I find it funny that I am part of a forum where the broken and damaged testimonies are trying hard to climb up, but yet I am trying to break down my own self and descend from my lofty perch, and to be let free and worship Christ in a more unique way independent if only a little bit from the church and its cultures.
I used to say, "My mission is to reveal a person's true identity to themselves so they can finally deal with it." Now I'm a much nicer person. I can take being threatened with physical harm only so many times.

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timpanogos
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by timpanogos » 30 Aug 2009, 11:08

borninit, good post
Push to the Peak!

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Jordan
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Re: Obert C Tanner fell down straight from Heaven

Post by Jordan » 30 Aug 2009, 18:53

borninit wrote:I find it funny that I am part of a forum where the broken and damaged testimonies are trying hard to climb up, but yet I am trying to break down my own self and descend from my lofty perch, and to be let free and worship Christ in a more unique way independent if only a little bit from the church and its cultures.
Yes, excellent.
I've felt this paradox, too. They strangely go together, breaking down our old selves and trying to build up something new and stronger.

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