Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

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Heber13
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by Heber13 » 01 Sep 2015, 13:01

If I use this definition of the word "doctrine"
1. archaic : teaching, instruction.
a : something that is taught.
b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma.
then I would say the garment has a doctrine to it. And the garment has policies from the church.

The doctrine is around what it represents and what it means to us symbolically, and the covenants that it includes.

The policy is around how often to wear it, the specific sizes that the church has approved and makes in it's own distribution centers, and how the bishops are to ask the question in a TR interview.

The doctrine won't change much about it, even if our understanding of it will.

The policies will change as the church sanctions policy changes from the counsels and committes that agree to make changes to it.

We don't have the authority to change the policy for the church.

We only have the choice on how we decide to interpret it and adhere to it and answer to it.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Holy Cow
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by Holy Cow » 01 Sep 2015, 13:07

DarkJedi wrote:If she believed God told her to pay 7.5%, why didn't she just answer yes when asked if she pays a full tithe? Perfect example of reading something into a question. Whether or not she received such a revelation is immaterial - that she believes she did is what matters. If she believes that for 7.5% is a full tithe then 7.5% is a full tithe.
Yeah, I completely agree. And that's what we told her she should do, but she was one of those black/white thinkers, who couldn't allow herself to give the bishop an answer that she felt needed some explanation. She had already had a conversation with the bishop about her personal revelation prior to her recommend renewal, and he had made it clear that the church's stance of a 10% tithe trumped her personal revelation. So she felt like she had to let him know that she was still paying the 7.5% that she felt she had been commanded to pay. Sometimes it's painful to recognize how restrictive black/white thinking can be, and how much grief and guilt it can bring to people when they feel like they are trying to do their best, but are never doing enough.
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LookingHard
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by LookingHard » 01 Sep 2015, 13:52

In addition to what hawkgrrrl mentioned:
- Policy
- Doctrine
- Revelation

I also think that there is also
- Teachings
- Beliefs

These are all lumped together many times by church members (and leaders). Many members don't even feel the need to make any attempt to dissect them - "just obey them all and you will get to the celestial kingdom"

You probably add "culture" in there also.

As one example, (especially just after "Saturday's Warrior") I think most members held the belief that everyone had THE one person they were supposed to marry.

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Orson
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by Orson » 01 Sep 2015, 13:59

I'll back up the personal revelation comment. The only thing that matters is what you and God decide is best for you. Do that - and don't worry about what other people think they should do.
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BuffetMormon
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by BuffetMormon » 01 Sep 2015, 16:10

Thanks again you awesome people! I am so glad I found this place. I like wearing the garments, most of the time. But over the summer, we went to Disney World where it was 95 degrees and 100% humidity. The first day, my garments were drenched. It was awful. The rest of the days, I wore regular underwear to the parks and it was soooooooo much better.

I don't care what others think, but I do care about what God wants me to do.

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Orson
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by Orson » 01 Sep 2015, 18:39

BuffetMormon wrote:But over the summer, we went to Disney World where it was 95 degrees and 100% humidity. The first day, my garments were drenched. It was awful.
Comments like this remind me that Joseph, Hyrum, and John Taylor were not wearing their garments in Carthage jail. There has been much speculation around why, but we know two things: it was a warm summer day, and the garments were not being worn.
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I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

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LookingHard
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by LookingHard » 01 Sep 2015, 18:59

And their garments were much longer and hotter than ours are. I don't blame them.


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Ann
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by Ann » 02 Sep 2015, 03:15

BuffetMormon wrote: Most of the time, I like wearing my garments. I find them comforting (in a spiritual sense).
For me, it's "some" of the time, but I still feel drawn to wearing them.
But sometimes I hate them......like in 100 degree heat. Sometimes I do not want to wear them.
I've decided that femininity and comfort are not trivial things. I don't accept that I am wrong or vain for wanting to feel feminine, and I'm not susceptible anymore to being told that garment-wearing is a measure of my love and devotion to the Savior. It just isn't, at least not for me. But out of love for my husband, "my people," and my personal temple-going experience, I wear them on my terms.

I'm glad you reached a comfortable spot on the issue. :thumbup: I haven't put in the search terms recently, but there are a lot of garment-related threads here.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

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GBSmith
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by GBSmith » 02 Sep 2015, 11:58

Orson wrote:
BuffetMormon wrote:But over the summer, we went to Disney World where it was 95 degrees and 100% humidity. The first day, my garments were drenched. It was awful.
Comments like this remind me that Joseph, Hyrum, and John Taylor were not wearing their garments in Carthage jail. There has been much speculation around why, but we know two things: it was a warm summer day, and the garments were not being worn.
Garments were originally only worn in the temple and infrequently worn outside, hence their not being worn at Carthage. Since then their use and design has morphed into what we have today. Joseph F. Smith declared that their design was of divine origin and they could not be modified and only the original design was allowed in the temple. He had a sign put up in the SL Temple to that effect that Heber J. Grant had taken down and burned when he became president. And so it goes...

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LookingHard
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Re: Is the temple garment doctrine or policy?

Post by LookingHard » 02 Sep 2015, 12:12

GBS - any references on that? Not questioning you, but I would love to have the documented version in my pocket so to speak.


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