What the heck is a "mystic"?

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Tom Haws
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by Tom Haws » 11 Aug 2009, 13:28

I would say I was not a mystic until 2003. But mysticism is encouraged in the LDS tradition, I think. Perhaps I am merely a late bloomer.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
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Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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Rix
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by Rix » 11 Aug 2009, 13:39

HiJolly wrote:
Heber13 wrote: Do you believe your traditional Mormonism was useful because it is "True" and allows for exploration unlimitless, or is it more a cultural thing that just seems to make sense to you?
I like to think it is the principles of traditional Mormonism; things like continuing revelation, angelic ministrations, keys of asking and receiving, Gift of the Holy Ghost, temples, etc.
OR....are they the principles of Mormonism because they are universally true? Do you think it's possible that Joseph (particularly) instituted these "principles" because they had been experienced by him and others...and they worked? We do tend to be attracted to, and fascinated by the mystical and secretive things. It makes us feel "special," doesn't it?
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche

God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that. -- Joseph Campbell

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HiJolly
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by HiJolly » 11 Aug 2009, 13:55

Rix wrote:
HiJolly wrote:
Heber13 wrote: Do you believe your traditional Mormonism was useful because it is "True" and allows for exploration unlimitless, or is it more a cultural thing that just seems to make sense to you?
I like to think it is the principles of traditional Mormonism; things like continuing revelation, angelic ministrations, keys of asking and receiving, Gift of the Holy Ghost, temples, etc.
OR....are they the principles of Mormonism because they are universally true? Do you think it's possible that Joseph (particularly) instituted these "principles" because they had been experienced by him and others...and they worked? We do tend to be attracted to, and fascinated by the mystical and secretive things. It makes us feel "special," doesn't it?
Yes indeed, Rix. I totally agree. The only schools of spiritual development that endorse these things that I know of are the Western Mystery Traditions (my favorite is BOTA). If you don't like the 'Occult' label, the only other choice is Mormonism. IMO.

I would add, it *IS* special. Anyone who has an eternal moment being 'One' with God cannot deny it is special. Even if it makes one feel "less than the dust of the Earth". A school, church or tradition that does this repeatedly for its members, is special, too!

Moses 1:8 And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.
9 And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth.
10 And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural strength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed.

As Joseph said, all truth is contained within the Gospel, a true 'Mormon' seeks out truth wherever it is found.

HiJolly
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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Brian Johnston
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by Brian Johnston » 11 Aug 2009, 17:13

Heber13 wrote:Valoel, do you think you and others here at StayLDS are mystics?
By your definition, I would say yes. Would you agree?
I consider myself to be a "mystic;" however, I don't believe that makes me special. It is just a word to describe a person.

Mormonism, like HiJolly pointed out, is one of the few strongly mystical western religious traditions. Mormonism has endless stories of people talking to God, angels, seeing visions, having prophetic dreams, harnessing divine powers to heal and bless, being prompted in every day life from making major life decisions all the way down to praying for guidance to find your missing car keys. All of this is encouraged and expected. Somehow though, that word is not in the normal Mormon vocabulary. It is the word used by the rest of the religious world. We somehow associate it with the occult or something ... *boggles* It's the technical term for what most active Mormons take for granted.

I have personally experienced spiritual events that I can not deny, and they were very mystical. I still seek and experience these types of things. So that makes me a "Mystic."
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

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quietblue
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by quietblue » 14 Aug 2009, 09:54

Occult means "hidden", as in hidden knowledge.
"Those few members who desert the cause are abandoning an oasis to search for water in the desert." - Neal A. Maxwell

Poppyseed
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by Poppyseed » 14 Aug 2009, 14:37

I am still noodling over all of this. Some of it is as clear as mud. OTher parts makes me think...."Holy Schmokes! I might just be a mystic."

But Thank you for the discussion. I am learning a lot. I hope the conversation continues.
“Be not afraid of growing slowly; be afraid only of standing still.” --old Chinese proverb

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Heber13
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by Heber13 » 14 Aug 2009, 15:38

"Schmokes" is definitely a MYSTICAL word. I shall now ponder this...ummmmmm... :ugeek:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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quietblue
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by quietblue » 15 Aug 2009, 09:14

The practical test of all these strange religious experiences of mysticism, ecstasy, and inspiration is to observe whether these phenomena cause an individual:

1. To enjoy better and more complete physical health.

2. To function more efficiently and practically in his mental life.

3. More fully and joyfully to socialize his religious experience.

4. More completely to spiritualize his day-by-day living while faithfully discharging the commonplace duties of routine mortal existence.

5. To enhance his love for, and appreciation of, truth, beauty, and goodness.

6. To conserve currently recognized social, moral, ethical, and spiritual values.

7. To increase his spiritual insight--God-consciousness.

True religion is not a system of philosophic belief which can be reasoned out and substantiated by natural proofs, neither is it a fantastic and mystic experience of indescribable feelings of ecstasy which can be enjoyed only by the romantic devotees of mysticism. Religion is not the product of reason, but viewed from within, it is altogether reasonable. Religion is not derived from the logic of human philosophy, but as a mortal experience it is altogether logical. Religion is the experiencing of divinity in the consciousness of a moral being of evolutionary origin; it represents true experience with eternal realities in time, the realization of spiritual satisfactions while yet in the flesh.
"Those few members who desert the cause are abandoning an oasis to search for water in the desert." - Neal A. Maxwell

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jmb275
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by jmb275 » 15 Aug 2009, 14:20

For the record, I don't consider myself a mystic. I suppose in some technical sense, if I admit I have had a spiritual experience, I could be considered a mystic. But in the colloquial sense of the word I don't think so. I put little to no weight on my spiritual experiences to tell me anything about reality, but rather to help my physiological self. I don't expect prayer to help me find car keys, or help me make major decisions. That doesn't mean there isn't a benefit in this regard, but I expect it to come from natural consequences, like clearing my mind so I can think more clearly, helping me look at things from a different perspective etc. In other words, with regard to finding car keys, I would expect a natural consequence of prayer to be helping me recall the memory cues that can help me remember where I "lost" my keys. Whereas a mystic might find some supernatural message in this natural consequence, I do not.

Doesn't mean I don't appreciate spirituality, or religion. I just view it as a tool, and a different one than what a mystic might view it as.
I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women--all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there.
- Joseph Smith, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 304)

jeriboy
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Re: What the heck is a "mystic"?

Post by jeriboy » 15 Aug 2009, 21:25

quite blue said...True religion is not a system of philosophic belief which can be reasoned out and substantiated by natural proofs, neither is it a fantastic and mystic experience of indescribable feelings of ecstasy which can be enjoyed only by the romantic devotees of mysticism. Religion is not the product of reason, but viewed from within, it is altogether reasonable. Religion is not derived from the logic of human philosophy, but as a mortal experience it is altogether logical. Religion is the experiencing of divinity in the consciousness of a moral being of evolutionary origin; it represents true experience with eternal realities in time, the realization of spiritual satisfactions while yet in the flesh.

Dang that was good!

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