Hearing the Spirit

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
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DarkJedi
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Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by DarkJedi » 19 Sep 2013, 04:38

GBSmith wrote:
Roy wrote:Possibilities that I am comfortable with:

1) Some form of premontion or foreboding that we do not understand but does seem to occur to some people at some times. This could have meant that the accident already occured and the father was made aware of this through supernatural means.
I thought about that later and it seems a good possibility.

The other thing I've wondered about is if or even how much God intervenes in our lives unbidden. It seems like an agency issue. If God/the Spirit were stepping in all the time then what is the point of our having choice. My wife's theory is that we have guardian angels that are ready to help but can't unless asked. Then, of course, the help we get may be what we need but not what we asked for. Just a thought.
I agree with you GBS, and will take it a step further. I doubt God usually intervenes even when asked, perhaps for the same reason. If God were to help one individual he may have to trample the free agency of another to do so. It could also be like the old sailor analogy - if a sailor heading west prays for wind to get him to his destination and his prayer in answered, the sailor heading east will have a more difficult time reaching his destination. I see very little of God intervening in people's lives - but I do see lots of people who hope and believe he does.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Featherina

Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by Featherina » 28 Sep 2013, 14:50

DarkJedi wrote:I doubt God usually intervenes even when asked, perhaps for the same reason. If God were to help one individual he may have to trample the free agency of another to do so. It could also be like the old sailor analogy - if a sailor heading west prays for wind to get him to his destination and his prayer in answered, the sailor heading east will have a more difficult time reaching his destination. I see very little of God intervening in people's lives - but I do see lots of people who hope and believe he does.
"Angels cheer for both sides." :D

One possibility is that "the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." -Luke 17:21 or 22
Maybe the spirit we feel in our own ways, can tap into the objective all-seeing truth of God and can shed light on things we are less aware of when we are in our usual "ego" state. There's a tendency to think that everything I think or feel is a result of external forces, when really, I am the one thinking and feeling.

That's not to suggest that "its ALL in our heads" - but that much of how we interpret things is - our subjective interpretation. I believe there is a God - a Heavenly Father and Mother, who love us enough to trust us to learn by trial and error - active faith, and that it will more likely be smooth, when we find ways to tap into the divinity within.

conflicted testimony
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Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by conflicted testimony » 28 Sep 2013, 19:08

Before joining the church I had experiences that were difficult to explain, I put it down to premonition, a bit of ESP, a bit of intelligent guessing, etc. After joining the church I put it down to hearing or feeling the spirit as it was nice and easy to compartmentalise it like that.

I like the direct prompt and outcome scenarios that happen to me -I can believe and trust in those :) eg having a really bad personal time, driving along and not realising that I am speeding, received words directly, and loudly to slow down, police were around the corner. No doubt this can be explained away, but having experienced it, it was what it was.

Featherina

Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by Featherina » 29 Sep 2013, 15:39

conflicted testimony wrote:Before joining the church I had experiences that were difficult to explain, I put it down to premonition, a bit of ESP, a bit of intelligent guessing, etc. After joining the church I put it down to hearing or feeling the spirit as it was nice and easy to compartmentalise it like that.
I think that at some point in all communication, accuracy is sacrificed for simplicity and conciseness.
I like the direct prompt and outcome scenarios that happen to me -I can believe and trust in those :) eg having a really bad personal time, driving along and not realising that I am speeding, received words directly, and loudly to slow down, police were around the corner. No doubt this can be explained away, but having experienced it, it was what it was.
I believe, & suggestions like "string theory" imply, that God or higher dimensions are made up of potential - possibilities.
If believing something helps you - inspires belief, faith, trust in a higher power, that continues to motivate you in productive ways, then that is GOoD, IMO.

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benbritton
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Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by benbritton » 08 Oct 2013, 16:43

I realize this is an aging conversation, but I wanted to address the fact that these things happen to some and don't happen to others.

I don't know how familiar everyone on this board is with near death experiences, but I have found they can teach some important principles. I don't necessarily prescribe to any specific near death experience, however there are concepts that come up repeatedly in near death experiences across cultures, religions, and age groups. One of these is the principle that God uses the various things in our lives to teach us specifically what we need to grow. Essentially, some of life experience is shared because we all learn what we need from it, but each unique trial and blessing is turned to our benefit. Not that everything is necessarily predestined, but God uses each situation to teach us despite our good use or misuse of free will.

I find that principle consistent with the Mormon understanding of this life, consistent with my personal experience with God, and a principle that can explain why one person might have a certain type of spiritual experience and another doesn't. It also helps answer the question of whether the father changed the fate of his son in that given situation. I believe that our prayers have the potential to change outcomes, but beyond that Heavenly Father provides us with situations to learn from. If the dad had not listened to the prompting to pray, would he have learned an essential life lesson through a different outcome or through the same outcome despite not acting on a spiritual prompting? Would the son have learned what he needed to through death or through continuing his life despite his dad's lack of action? I believe the answer to those questions and other similar ones are the most telling in what the outcome might have been if the father had not acted on his prompting.

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Heber13
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Re: Hearing the Spirit

Post by Heber13 » 17 Oct 2013, 14:05

GBSmith wrote:The other thing I've wondered about is if or even how much God intervenes in our lives unbidden. It seems like an agency issue. If God/the Spirit were stepping in all the time then what is the point of our having choice. My wife's theory is that we have guardian angels that are ready to help but can't unless asked. Then, of course, the help we get may be what we need but not what we asked for. Just a thought.
In real life, maybe some stories happen and people had feelings or premonitions that came true that make a good story. But how many of those same people have the same feelings or premonitions at other times that just amount to nothing...and then, those stories just never get told?

Its hard for me to find those kinds of stories faith-promoting...because I don't know what it is promoting faith in.
- That God sometimes intervenes, but not sometimes.
- That with faith and prayer we can ask for help, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't?
- That God let's you know He cares about you sometimes, but other times wants you to learn you can be OK on your own without intervention, but whatever the outcome...we are tested on how we react to whatever happens?
- That religious people have promptings and attribute it to God, while non-religious people have gut feelings also but just don't attribute it to God?

Besides it being a feel good story...what faith do these stories promote? Is it true faith or false faith?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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