An Afterlife?

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
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InquiringMind
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by InquiringMind » 04 Aug 2012, 02:40

Brown, I'm glad to hear some things from relativity. In case everyone was wondering, the time dilation that Brown talked about is calculated by dividing the amount of time that has passed for the "stationary" observer by the Lorentz factor (represented by a lower-case gamma) which is one over the square root of one minus v squared over c squared, where v is the relative velocity between the two observers and c is the speed of light. For the astronauts' case, another correction is necessary because the earth's gravitational field is weaker at that altitude, which makes time pass faster for the astronauts, and the two time differences would be added together. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to show off the physics I've learned :smile:

Metaphysically, Brown, you make a good point in saying that we shouldn't assume that the fundamental structure of an afterlife will be the same as life here. I watched a very funny segment of a stand-up comedy routine on youtube where the comedian made jokes about the ridiculousness of believing that we'd be doing the same things in heaven that we were doing on earth. I'm thinking that I probably agree with bc_pg that I wouldn't want to live a human existence on earth for all of eternity, even it if was a good one. But if there is an afterlife, I have to hope that it would be fundamentally different from earth life in some ways, though we don't have any information on what those differences would be (other than possibly NDE.)

AmyJ
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by AmyJ » 11 May 2018, 07:00

mercyngrace wrote:
29 Jul 2012, 15:20
So I'm finally through a very long weekend and thought I'd come back to this thread and see where my thoughts lead.

First, I agree with everyone here who says that a belief in the afterlife can have negative effects. Some people seem to disengage from this life, banking on a promised post-mortal future to bring peace and happiness. They don't enjoy this life or attempt to make a real difference in the lives of others because they don't see this life as anything more than a temporary test. Many of these people are instantly recognizable in church because they speak about "the world" as being an outside entity against which they are pitted in battle for their very souls. These are people clinging, white knuckled, to the tight rope of life just inching along from one side to the other. They see the platform on the far side of the rope and that is all they see. Mortally afraid of falling, they never risk loosing their grip, and if they do slip, even a little, they are nearly paralyzed by fear that they will never reach the safety of the platform. Theirs is a coward's life.

This view of heaven, as an escape, is a miserable degradation of what the gospel actually teaches. The gospel is Kingdom AND Cross. In other words, it isn't just about salvation from eternal hell (Cross) but about building a life now that's worth living forever (Kingdom). We are supposed to be fashioning a new garden in this lone and dreary waste. It's the sweat of our brow and the struggle to bring new life to this place that we are charged with. In this kind of gospel centered life, the walk across the tightrope becomes a divine dance through the air. The platform on the other side, just like the platform from which we stepped out into the spotlight, is not a goal to be reached by the timid but an anchor whose existence is essential in creating the space where the most brilliant performances play out.

This is not to suggest that I don't believe in post-mortal existence. I do. But I don't believe it's an "after" life. It's just life. The continuation of our divine dance.
Wow Thank you.

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 30 May 2018, 16:27

Amyj, thanks for reviving this thread, it's been an interesting read.
Heber13 wrote:
26 Jul 2012, 22:28
I believe in the afterlife. One day I'll learn I was right...or I won't know I'm wrong about it. ;)
That's about where I sit. If we are literally just organisms with no eternal souls (which to me is bleak indeed) I still want to make the most of this life and live as if there is something more, it makes for a better life for me and society as a whole.

Whether we are reincarnated, or came here as a 'one and only' shot at life, we all wanted to be here. If it's reincarnation then we not only wanted to come here, but we keep wanting to come back. I enjoy life, I don't want it to end. I also don't see myself growing all that I need to in one single life. Still I believe and hope for something to continue, I would love it if I could remember this life after I am out of it. Right now I know nothing of any life before this one, reincarnated or living with god. I hope that upon leaving this life, all things are restored.

Whether it's reincarnation or a single life to live, we know nothing of existence outside of this realm. I think even we would have wanted it this way, it would spoil it to know all of the answers while we're going through it. Like a dream that you know is a dream and then can have complete control of, where is the unknown and the spontaneity?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

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Heber13
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by Heber13 » 02 Jun 2018, 04:41

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
30 May 2018, 16:27
Like a dream that you know is a dream and then can have complete control of, where is the unknown and the spontaneity?
I find dreams fascinating.

They are all in my head. How is it possible I can trick myself when I'm the one doing it? How can I feel suspense or even fear of an unknown ending to a story I'm telling myself??? Fascinating. Haha.

I woke up the other night from a dream panicked and racing heart rate from being scared I was being chased by a ferocious animal and was afraid I was going to be eaten. Some crazy dream.

But it had an effect on me. It sure felt real. Even if all in my head. It made me think of things the rest of the day and it stayed with me for a while (even tho most dreams I forget almost immediately).

What if this life is like a dream? And the afterlife is when we wakeup to reflect on the meaning of this mortal existence?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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LDS_Scoutmaster
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 18 Jun 2018, 16:47

Heber13 wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 04:41
What if this life is like a dream? And the afterlife is when we wakeup to reflect on the meaning of this mortal existence?
What if we dream an entire life each night? When we end this life we are actually waking up, only later to fall asleep and dream another entire existence.

I personally think it will look like a dream. Maybe we will wonder if it actually happened.

I like 'way out there' thinking and philosophies as well. And dreams. I haven't had a 'scary' dream in a long time. I think they have a lot of meaning, subconsciously. An emotional replay of the day we've had or are going to have. I have much symbolism in my dreams.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Jun 2018, 17:13

If you haven't watched "What Dreams May Come", I recommend it highly.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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dande48
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by dande48 » 18 Jun 2018, 20:21

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 16:47
Heber13 wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 04:41
What if this life is like a dream? And the afterlife is when we wakeup to reflect on the meaning of this mortal existence?
What if we dream an entire life each night? When we end this life we are actually waking up, only later to fall asleep and dream another entire existence.
A few months back, I saw this comic by Abtruse Goose. I thought it was fitting. :) What if you ARE personally God, only you don't remember because you decided to thrust yourself into a limited body and blanket all your memories and knowledge... because you were BORED. It doesn't seem too far fetched.

Lovecraft wrote a story with a similar idea, called "Beyond the Wall of Sleep". Spoiler Warning. The story covers a "mad-man", who spews out what most take to be lunatic ravings about how this life is but a shell and shadow of our true selfs; That humans are beings of light, who's true nature is beyond human comprehension. We are bound and confined to our bodies, and it is only through sleep we can catch a glimpse of things how they really are. The man also tells of the ultimate final battle, when he is called home, where he will finally conquor evil. The man dies in an asylum, but an intern took note of what he said. A new, bright, lumonescent star appears in the sky that night.
“On February 22, 1901, a marvellous new star was discovered by Dr. Anderson, of Edinburgh, not very far from Algol. No star had been visible at that point before. Within twenty-four hours the stranger had become so bright that it outshone Capella. In a week or two it had visibly faded, and in the course of a few months it was hardly discernible with the naked eye.”
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

NightSG
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by NightSG » 18 Jun 2018, 22:15

rebeccad wrote:
27 Jul 2012, 03:15
This is the exact reason that I believe the afterlife is a great university, and upon arriving I will be handed a course schedule. I have already chosen:

Guitar Basics taught by Jimi Hendrix
Communications 101 taught by Abraham Lincoln
Physics team taught by Issac Newton and Albert Einstein (although I have heard that Newton was a dreary lecturer)

No one can prove I'm wrong, I want to be right, so there you go.
Sorry, but it's all accounting and economics courses. Taught by nuns.

NightSG
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by NightSG » 19 Jun 2018, 09:32

dande48 wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 20:21
A few months back, I saw this comic by Abtruse Goose. I thought it was fitting. :) What if you ARE personally God, only you don't remember because you decided to thrust yourself into a limited body and blanket all your memories and knowledge... because you were BORED. It doesn't seem too far fetched.
Nope; I know me and there's no way I would have done that without hanging on to some cheat codes. Thus I can deduce from the simple fact that I don't have infinite money and Marilu Henner (reverted to 1985, because one of the codes would have to be stopping/reversing a woman's aging no later than her mid 30s) giving me a back rub right now that I am not an omnipotent being.

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Heber13
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Re: An Afterlife?

Post by Heber13 » 20 Jun 2018, 10:17

NightSG wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 09:32
I know me and there's no way I would have done that without hanging on to some cheat codes.
nice!!
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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