LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

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SamBee
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by SamBee » 14 Jul 2010, 13:32

I agree with most of what you just said Nathan, and I think many people would.

As for modern music, I was a Pentecostal for a while, and the music was one thing which didn't win me over. There were great experiences etc in that church, but the attempts at modern music weren't always very good.

It is a bit much sometimes to hear a five year old say "the church is twoo". Okay, it's sweet, but they don't know what they're on about most of the time.

Agree with what you say about tears. I'm not a crying man, never really have been.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Zadok
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by Zadok » 15 Jul 2010, 11:37

I am certainly in favor of a 2-Hour Block. I would eliminate Sunday School and move that teaching into Priesthood, Relief Society, Young Women and Young men. Primary could have a singing time, and class instruction.

From a purely economic stand point, cutting church to 2 hours would make building utilization much more efficient. Where there was a demand for additional buildings, more wards could be housed in ONE building, where there are large wards sharing a building, cutting the block would make the change over much easier since one ward would be in classes while the next ward is in the Chapel. And in some high-membership areas cutting to 2 hours would reduce the need for more buildings by one third.

I would cut Sacrament meeting to just one hour. Two 10-12 minute speakers, including a rest hymn between speakers. I would purchase an electronic metronome for each chorister and organist and explain to them that not every hymn is supposed to sound like a funeral dirge. I would also encourage another go-round with the Hymnal from the "Music Committee" I would transpose as many hymns as possible to the key of C so that they could be played by less accomplished musicians, and I would include chords above each staff so that those who play corded instruments suck as the guitar could also play the hymns. I would take out the old, slow, and difficult hymns and insert some new and more modern hymns. Especially some of the old standards from the Bible Based Baptists.

I would offer Scouting as a separate program to those young men who are interested. I would also take out the intense "Mormonism" from the scouting program so that male friends from school would be welcomed and not feel like it was a disguise to get them baptized. The NEW scouting program would be focused on the Scouting principles and encourage advancement and fraternity among the young men in the area. (Not just the priesthood holders) It would be a true SCOUT program. If there is something similar for young women, I would offer that also. Young members who don't want to participate in scouting would not be forced to do so, and could come to the ward to play basketball and have some kind of youth activity.

I am not sure I would go with the recorded sacrament prayer, but I certainly would take some time teaching about the sacrament and encouraging young men to memorize the prayer. Perhaps some dramatic arts teaching so it doesn't sound like my old BYU professor reading from the American History Text.

Finally, I would stick with the lay ministry, but I would require new bishops to attend some simple training in counseling, and interviewing and dealing with member problems. Giving a new Bishop the Keys, and telling them to rely on the spirit when dealing with broken marriages on the brink of divorce, or the grief of an accidental death of a child, or the loss of a partner after a lifetime of togetherness just isn't adequate in my humble opinion.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Jul 2010, 12:20

There is much more I would keep than I would change, even though there is plenty I would change. Quite a bit of what I would change would be minor tweaks to make existing things more practical and possible, but the "keepers" outnumber the "dross" substantially for me.

Also, as an observation and a chance for a learning experience, I think it's interesting and instructive to see the title of the post and then read the responses - and I would suggest taking an honest and open look at that "tension" on an individiual level. There really is SO much that is wonderful that should be acknowledged and kept - but it is SO easy to drift from that focus even on a thread that asks the question directly.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Nathan
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by Nathan » 15 Jul 2010, 13:18

Brilliant feedback! Keep it coming.

Ray, although I share your opinion about the importance of guarding against being overly critical/cynical, I should point out (as Brian did above), that my thread title introduces one side of the question and the end of my post the other. I was intentionally trying to keep it balanced. You're point, however, is valid.

Nathan

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SamBee
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by SamBee » 15 Jul 2010, 15:10

Two hour block is a good idea, but I also like the idea of a half hour social between them.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

nightwalden
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Re: LDS Worship: What Would You Keep?

Post by nightwalden » 15 Jul 2010, 22:48

Shortening sacrament meeting is nice. I have been in a ward where we only had a 1 hour sacrament meeting because of an odd building schedule. We just started having a more regular schedule and I already hate having 3 speakers instead of 2. I do not see the need for 3 speakers each week, 2 is sufficient. I actually like having SS and Priesthood/RS. But I think the meeting times could and should be shortened and church could last 2.5 hours instead. 1 hour for sacrament, 10 minute break, 30 minutes for SS, 10 minute break, 40 minutes for Priesthood/RS. Another advantage of having SS is that it's a nice time for people to do other stuff, i.e. meet with someone, make some plans, socialize, talk with bishop, etc.

Improved teaching is another thing that I long for at church. I think the primary culprit for lackluster teaching is that members attempt to be supportive of poor teachers by giving positive feedback and encouragement rather than criticism. This has perpetuated until so many don't have any expectations above a very mediocre lesson. Also, it seems like teachers are trying to fill time so often. The shortened lesson times might help with that.

More speaking up about countering some negative aspects of church culture, i.e. judging on appearance. Modify some language usage, i.e. discourage "I know . . ." statements and encourage "I believe . . ." statements. Fewer expected meetings outside of the regular block, i.e. PPIs, presidency meetings, etc. Open up Sunday School presidency to women. More focus on spirituality during Sunday meetings.

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