Certainty

For the discussion of spirituality -- from LDS and non-LDS sources
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Cadence
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Re: Certainty

Post by Cadence » 14 Jun 2010, 20:00

I have concluded there is no hope for certainty. You can just look at this forum and see many different views of what God is and how he interacts with us. With so many different view points how can one ever be certain of god and his nature unless he were to visit you personally on multiple occasions and instruct you on a one on one basis. Since he does not do that I conclude it is not important to him that we understand him completely. Or be certain of his nature or existence.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Tom Haws
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Re: Certainty

Post by Tom Haws » 14 Jun 2010, 20:10

I Am That I Am.

Of that I am certain. No quibbles or doubts.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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Tom Haws
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Re: Certainty

Post by Tom Haws » 14 Jun 2010, 20:13

HiJolly wrote:Even if we see God, we still do not begin to understand even .0001% of the reality that is He. In this life, we walk by faith, and that it true whether we've received our 2nd anointing or seen the Savior in the flesh and embraced Him, or whatever.
I just thought that was worth repeating. Meeting is only the beginning. Aim high. Believe in the possibilities.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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Brian Johnston
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Re: Certainty

Post by Brian Johnston » 17 Jun 2010, 07:51

Cadence wrote:I have concluded there is no hope for certainty.
You are expressing a high degree of certainty in that statement :twisted:

I love religion! It is such a mental trip.
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

dash1730
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Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 14:21

Re: Certainty

Post by dash1730 » 17 Jun 2010, 19:27

There is a scripture that has bothered me for several decades since missionary days which I think I have a handle on now:
And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true. Alma 32: 21
My question was, isn't it unfair, impossible, unjust to require a person to have faith only in things that are true but which he has an imperfect knowledge of. How am I better off as a Mormon missionary than as a Muslim terrorist? Neither can prove his way is right with God, our degree of conviction and follow-through is impressive (2 years service and dieing for god), yet (supposedly) the missionary is blessed and the terrorist is lost. If a terrorist is to easy to judge then what about a Baptist missionary? How can a fair god bless one and not the other because of historical happen-stance?

But recently I have come to believe that God blesses all nations and peoples with as much light and knowledge as they will accept. All have the Light of Christ with them, and on occasion some of them will be guided by the Holy Ghost. If a person exercises their agency to choose good over bad, or at least strive for they highest good in their choices, and that becomes a constant theme of their life, then I believe they will have salvation & exhalation (perhaps just as soon as the Mormons do their clerical work and run their names thru the temple.) In that way I can understand Alma 32, accept Mormons one-and-only stuff and additionally recognize the world of good that people in other religious traditions do and are.

BTW, I have also recently come to a definition of faith that helps me better understand it. Faith, I believe, is to have confidence to do the right thing, even though you don't have a guarantee of a reward.
I may not walk the straight and narrow, but I try to cross it as often as I can.
---J Golden Kimball

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SamBee
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Re: Certainty

Post by SamBee » 18 Jun 2010, 04:28

Ray Degraw wrote:I think whether or not we see God in this life depends largely on how we define God.

I don't expect to see HF or Jesus any time soon, but I believe I've seen God more than once - and I am certain (no doubts whatsoever) I have heard God's voice.
Surely depends more on the definition of "see"?
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Certainty

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Jun 2010, 08:57

Yeah, definitions are important! :ugeek:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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