The Spirit =/= Good Feelings

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Beefster
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Re: The Spirit =/= Good Feelings

Post by Beefster » 07 Feb 2018, 09:48

SamBee wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 02:35
Most people have joined Islam because of the sword and still do so today. Saddam Hussein's family were Christian a few generations back but his village mass converted. And the trouble with Islam is that if you unconvert, you run the risk of being killed.
Good point. Though there are still people who convert by choice and from some of the Muslims I've talked to who were born into their faith, it appears their "conversion" process is in some way similar to the LDS process.

There were historically some Christian conversions by the sword (the Crusades)

It happens with a lot of religions, but from what I hear, violent conversion is encouraged by the Quran. I haven't fact-checked this personally, but it seems to be a commonly-held opinion from non-Muslims who have actually read the Quran. At least from those not wearing rose-colored glasses.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Often I hear doubt being presented as the opposite of faith but I think certainty does a better job of filling that role. Doubts can help faith grow, certainty almost always makes faith shrink. --nibbler

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SamBee
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Re: The Spirit =/= Good Feelings

Post by SamBee » 08 Feb 2018, 09:32

Right from the beginning. Mohammed was a warrior and conquered a substantial territory... in this he was unlike Buddha, Confucius, Zoroaster etc.

There are some parts of the world such as south east Asia where Muslim conversion was not by force, but in most places it was.

Christianity has converted by force - but its founders did not, and in more recent times it has not tended to. However, Islam still is doing this in some places, notably in Africa.

The Koran is contradictory on certain matters - notably on how to treat Jews and Christians. In many Muslim countries, they are still forced to pay the jizya which is a compulsory tax on them, so there are financial reasons in these places to convert.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: The Spirit =/= Good Feelings

Post by dande48 » 08 Feb 2018, 14:56

Mohammad did preach a certain level of religious tolerance, allowing those of other faiths to live in the areas he conquered. When the crusades happened, Christians were freely allowed to take pilgrimage into and out of the holy land. When the Christians conquered, the Muslims were slaughtered. I'd say that most Muslims convert and remain Muslims because it is something they honestly prayed about and believe in, same as the LDS.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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SamBee
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Re: The Spirit =/= Good Feelings

Post by SamBee » 08 Feb 2018, 15:56

https://www.britannica.com/topic/jizya
Jizya, also spelled jizyah, Arabic jizyah, head or poll tax that early Islamic rulers demanded from their non-Muslim subjects.


Islamic law made a distinction between two categories of non-Muslim subjects—pagans and dhimmis (“protected peoples,” or “peoples of the book”; i.e., those peoples who based their religious beliefs on sacred texts, such as Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians). The Muslim rulers tolerated the dhimmis and allowed them to practice their religion. In return for protection and as a mark of their submission, the dhimmis were required to pay a special poll tax known as the jizya. The rate of taxation and methods of collection varied greatly from province to province and were greatly influenced by local pre-Islamic customs. In theory the tax money was to be used for charitable purposes and the payment of salaries and pensions. In practice, however, the revenues derived from the jizya were deposited in the private treasuries of the rulers. The Ottomans usually used the proceeds of the jizya to pay their military expenses.

A convert to Islam was, in theory, no longer required to pay the jizya. The Umayyad caliphs (661–750), however, faced with increasing financial difficulties, demanded the jizya from recent converts to Islam as well as from the dhimmis. This discrimination against converts was a cause of the Abū Muslim rebellion (747) in Khorāsān and helped to precipitate the downfall of the Umayyads.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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