History of homosexuality

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nibbler
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by nibbler » 02 Oct 2017, 05:41

Good discussion. Now I'll buck the trend. ;)

I think it's funny, and I realize that this is a sort-of joke, sort-of not, but...

Some members in the church believe that only people in the highest tier of the CK will be able to have spirit children and the joke is that people in the lower kingdoms must not have reproductive organs, "TK smoothies," but there are millions of people that are unable to have children in this life, yet we don't immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be because they are missing genitals... yet the assumption is there for the afterlife.

nibbler
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by nibbler » 02 Oct 2017, 07:07

Another wrinkle. In the thread we've talked about whether people will resurrect with traits that we might think of as being defining characteristics... and baldness too.

At times in the past I wondered whether we were all destined to be interchangeable automatons. All "perfect" in behavior and with a perfect body, so little variety to be had there. It's one of those things that had me questioning the place of individuality in the eternities. Can I be me or do I become a drone as I become perfect. I've since moved on.

Anyway, we're talking traits that may or may not be taken from us. Homosexuality, sexuality in general, bald spots too.

DW is short. She'd like to be taller and I don't think she'd be happy for eternity if she resurrected into her 20-something body because her 20-something body is still short. Did the imperfections of a fallen world create a chemical mix that prevented her from growing to her "true" height? Meanwhile you may have someone else that is short that loves being short and moving them to fall somewhere in the divinely appointed 5'8" - 6'2" range would be upsetting. So does the resurrected ideal follow the desires of the individual or some cosmic standard?

I'm not looking for answers. I take a "I'll worry about my resurrected body if and when I get one... with its bald spot too." approach.

Roy
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by Roy » 02 Oct 2017, 08:41

Beefster wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 13:22
Assuming that any condition will continue to exist into eternity implies that the identity existed in the premortal existence.
Good thoughts. Did we have gender in the premortal realm? Did we have sexuality? How much of who we are is a function of our spirit (the ultimate nature) and how much is everything else (Environment - up to and including the processes and functions of our mortal "clay" host body). Would our spirit even be capable of sentient thought without a brain firing synapses or would it just be a "spark" of life?

I have another thought experiment. Suppose I am left handed living in a right handed world. I find this hard because everything is made for "righties". It gets even worse. Suppose that the religious leadership taught that being left handed was morally inferior and that using my left hand was a sin. In this world history, there was a time when you could be jailed or killed for being a "lefty" but things have progressed somewhat since then. Now it is recognized that being left handed is not a choice. I still do not get to go to all the "rights only" parties - but I am told that if I live my life very carefully not to use my left hand (or maybe slip up from time to time and repent) that I will be blessed by being made right handed in the resurrection.

Question: Are those that exclude me in this life justified by promising me that it will be made "right" (pun intended) in the next?
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

DoubtingTom
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by DoubtingTom » 02 Oct 2017, 09:04

Roy wrote:
02 Oct 2017, 08:41
Beefster wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 13:22
Assuming that any condition will continue to exist into eternity implies that the identity existed in the premortal existence.
Good thoughts. Did we have gender in the premortal realm? Did we have sexuality? How much of who we are is a function of our spirit (the ultimate nature) and how much is everything else (Environment - up to and including the processes and functions of our mortal "clay" host body). Would our spirit even be capable of sentient thought without a brain firing synapses or would it just be a "spark" of life?

I have another thought experiment. Suppose I am left handed living in a right handed world. I find this hard because everything is made for "righties". It gets even worse. Suppose that the religious leadership taught that being left handed was morally inferior and that using my left hand was a sin. In this world history, there was a time when you could be jailed or killed for being a "lefty" but things have progressed somewhat since then. Now it is recognized that being left handed is not a choice. I still do not get to go to all the "rights only" parties - but I am told that if I live my life very carefully not to use my left hand (or maybe slip up from time to time and repent) that I will be blessed by being made right handed in the resurrection.

Question: Are those that exclude me in this life justified by promising me that it will be made "right" (pun intended) in the next?
Ray I love that analogy! I think we know so little about the next life that we should stop pretending that we do and just err on the side of love - let the consequences follow. A loving Heavenly Father will either understand or send more clear revelation if we're wrong. Why maintain the status quo until we get revelation if the current status quo was never revelation to begin with? Wouldn't it be better to just love now?

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LookingHard
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by LookingHard » 02 Oct 2017, 09:25

Roy wrote:
02 Oct 2017, 08:41
Beefster wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 13:22
Assuming that any condition will continue to exist into eternity implies that the identity existed in the premortal existence.
Good thoughts. Did we have gender in the premortal realm? Did we have sexuality? How much of who we are is a function of our spirit (the ultimate nature) and how much is everything else (Environment - up to and including the processes and functions of our mortal "clay" host body). Would our spirit even be capable of sentient thought without a brain firing synapses or would it just be a "spark" of life?

I have another thought experiment. Suppose I am left handed living in a right handed world. I find this hard because everything is made for "righties". It gets even worse. Suppose that the religious leadership taught that being left handed was morally inferior and that using my left hand was a sin. In this world history, there was a time when you could be jailed or killed for being a "lefty" but things have progressed somewhat since then. Now it is recognized that being left handed is not a choice. I still do not get to go to all the "rights only" parties - but I am told that if I live my life very carefully not to use my left hand (or maybe slip up from time to time and repent) that I will be blessed by being made right handed in the resurrection.

Question: Are those that exclude me in this life justified by promising me that it will be made "right" (pun intended) in the next?
From what I understand, this isn't a joke. It used to be considered a sin to be left handed. I wonder if they went through a period were "It is OK to have LHT (left Hand Tendencies) and is no longer considered a sin, but you just can't use your left hand."
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hawkgrrrl
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Re: History of homosexuality

Post by hawkgrrrl » 02 Oct 2017, 10:29

The word "sinister" actually refers to left-handedness. Chew on that.

If sexual orientation is eternal, then wouldn't pansexuality be the ideal (attracted to all sexes)? Or maybe asexuality if Bednar got his way.

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