Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

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hawkgrrrl
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Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by hawkgrrrl » 15 May 2017, 11:05

I was re-reading Eckhart Tolle's book this weekend, and there was a passage that really stood out to me.
The three predominant states of egoic relationships are: wanting, thwarted wanting (anger, resentment, blaming, complaining), and indifference.
When he refers to "ego" he refers to the thoughts in our head that highjack who we really are. We are the one listening to our thoughts. The thoughts are conditioned by the structures and forms of life, culture, the world. We tell ourselves stories about being right or being victims, but really, we don't have to relive these past stories endlessly (which is the dysfunction of life). Instead we should recognize that these structures are self-sustaining, and so is the ego (as a byproduct of these structures). When threatened, they fight back. That which we resist, persists.

Anyway, what struck me was just how much those three states represent the 3 main stages of Fowler that we talk about:
Stage 3 is like Tolle's "wanting" state. We seek approval from a structure.
Stage 4 is like Tolle's "thwarted" state. We recognize that we aren't going to get what we want, so we feel anger, resentment, we blame, we complain.
Stage 5 is like Tolle's "indifference" state. We stop caring. We marginalize the source of our pain by considering it irrelevant.

Tolle would say all of these are still the egoic mind taking charge. We are still letting forms and structures override who we really are. Whether we are wanting or thwarted in it or indifferent to it, we are still unaware that those structures are self-sustaining and that we are greater than they are and have potential that transcends them.

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LookingHard
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by LookingHard » 15 May 2017, 11:26

They do line up fairly consistent.

It just reminds me of that saying that I heard a long time ago focused more on romantic relationships that I have found to be so true
The opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference
Nothing hurts more than to breakup with someone and the next day they are totally over you. You kind of what the split-up to hurt for a while for them.
I think I see that feeling echoed by some ex-mo's feeling hurt by being shunned/cutoff by family and friends. They are left feeling, "Didn't my relationship mean anything to you?"

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SilentDawning
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by SilentDawning » 15 May 2017, 12:20

hawkgrrrl wrote:
15 May 2017, 11:05
I was re-reading Eckhart Tolle's book this weekend, and there was a passage that really stood out to me.
The three predominant states of egoic relationships are: wanting, thwarted wanting (anger, resentment, blaming, complaining), and indifference.
When he refers to "ego" he refers to the thoughts in our head that highjack who we really are. We are the one listening to our thoughts. The thoughts are conditioned by the structures and forms of life, culture, the world. We tell ourselves stories about being right or being victims, but really, we don't have to relive these past stories endlessly (which is the dysfunction of life). Instead we should recognize that these structures are self-sustaining, and so is the ego (as a byproduct of these structures). When threatened, they fight back. That which we resist, persists.

Anyway, what struck me was just how much those three states represent the 3 main stages of Fowler that we talk about:
Stage 3 is like Tolle's "wanting" state. We seek approval from a structure.
Stage 4 is like Tolle's "thwarted" state. We recognize that we aren't going to get what we want, so we feel anger, resentment, we blame, we complain.
Stage 5 is like Tolle's "indifference" state. We stop caring. We marginalize the source of our pain by considering it irrelevant.

Tolle would say all of these are still the egoic mind taking charge. We are still letting forms and structures override who we really are. Whether we are wanting or thwarted in it or indifferent to it, we are still unaware that those structures are self-sustaining and that we are greater than they are and have potential that transcends them.
I agree with most of the part in bold, except the indifference state. My state of indifference is one of not caring about the shoulds of the church anymore, except to the extent that affects the achievement of my own goals. And these goals are not the same as the church's expression of such goals.

So, I don't care that the church tells me I'm a bad priesthood holder because I'm unwilling to take on time consuming callings, or hold a TR. I am indifferent to their opinions now, and comfortable in my own skin. I see that as healthy, and it acknowledges that those structures (assuming he means the church structure) are self-sustaining. And to me, they are still relevent in society, and to my family, but they are irrelevant to my behavior unless I buy into them.

Not sure if I understand the indifferent correctly -- but this is what I think you meant when you described the self-sustaining structures
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by hawkgrrrl » 15 May 2017, 12:32

Well, I'm not the Zen Master Echkart Tolle is. When my meditation app said I had achieved Level 2, I immediately thought "Ha ha! Suck it, Level One Losers!!"

I think when he says "indifferent" he means that studied indifference of someone who does feel hurt or disappointed, but then just moves on, but the structures are still a source of pain if we think about them.

Maybe I am still a Level One Loser, though, who just spent enough time to power up to Level 2 on a stupid phone app. That's one possibility.

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LookingHard
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by LookingHard » 15 May 2017, 13:16

hawkgrrrl wrote:
15 May 2017, 12:32
Well, I'm not the Zen Master Echkart Tolle is. When my meditation app said I had achieved Level 2, I immediately thought "Ha ha! Suck it, Level One Losers!!"

I think when he says "indifferent" he means that studied indifference of someone who does feel hurt or disappointed, but then just moves on, but the structures are still a source of pain if we think about them.

Maybe I am still a Level One Loser, though, who just spent enough time to power up to Level 2 on a stupid phone app. That's one possibility.
You just need to google for the cheat codes.

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mom3
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by mom3 » 15 May 2017, 14:20

I love his vision and Hawkgrrls comparison.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SilentDawning
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Re: Eckhart Tolle: A New Earth

Post by SilentDawning » 15 May 2017, 15:37

hawkgrrrl wrote:
15 May 2017, 12:32
I think when he says "indifferent" he means that studied indifference of someone who does feel hurt or disappointed, but then just moves on, but the structures are still a source of pain if we think about them.
There is some of that in me when I hear about the conscription model of service at work in our Ward, or hear ANYONE subject to injustice in just about any context,

But hearing people go black and white in their thinking, bear testimony about things I don't believe, or perpetuate cultural norms I don't believe anymore, I'm indifferent without angst. I guess there is healthy indifference and unhealthy indifference.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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