Some have noticed this. It almost - no, it does - imply that the gay relationship is more of a problem than gay sex.
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Duty Bound to Reject It!
Duty Bound to Reject It!
Plan of salvation key component is marriage between a man and a woman and have spirit children. That's one of the cornerstones of Mormon doctrine. Gay marriage goes completely against that very cornerstone idea of the plan of salvation. You can't have spirit child if same sex couples. (Maybe spirit baby adoption?) That's why the church views same sex marriage as sin that's worst than having sex before marriage and comparable to murder.
I'm not saying agree with it, it's just how the church views it.
I'm not saying agree with it, it's just how the church views it.
Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
Seeing the creation of spirits as completely non-sexual changes the dynamic radically. For me, it solves many issues and allows Mormon theology to be incredibly expansive.
That is the core change I would like to see, but I'm not holding my breath - even though eternal sexual reproduction makes absolutely no sense, imo.
That is the core change I would like to see, but I'm not holding my breath - even though eternal sexual reproduction makes absolutely no sense, imo.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)
Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
Totally agree. I believe in spirits, I don't believe they're created sexually because it makes no sense. Sex is purely temporal as far as I can tell.Old-Timer wrote:Seeing the creation of spirits as completely non-sexual changes the dynamic radically. For me, it solves many issues and allows Mormon theology to be incredibly expansive.
That is the core change I would like to see, but I'm not holding my breath - even though eternal sexual reproduction makes absolutely no sense, imo.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.
Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
My Introduction
Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
My Introduction
Duty Bound to Reject It!
Unless I'm wrong, I don't think the gospel says otherwise. So I doubt the GA's believe it to be non sexual in nature.
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Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
Do we really believe without question that a key component is marriage and children? Where is that among other doctrinal teachings as the key component in the plan?mczee wrote:Plan of salvation key component is marriage between a man and a woman and have spirit children. That's one of the cornerstones of Mormon doctrine. Gay marriage goes completely against that very cornerstone idea of the plan of salvation. You can't have spirit child if same sex couples. (Maybe spirit baby adoption?) That's why the church views same sex marriage as sin that's worst than having sex before marriage and comparable to murder.
I'm not saying agree with it, it's just how the church views it.
Here is my key components:
1) Christ's Atonement (salvation, resurrection)
2) Agency and choosing to follow Christ
3) Faith to become like Him so we can return to live with God and be exalted.
I think...that some things become layers and layers of teachings and good ideas...until we sometimes lose sight of the truth.
I know people who don't get married. I know people who can't have children. I know people who are homosexual. These are not always situations that result from their own choosing. But the plan still works for them...and I don't see marriage and having kids as part of their earthly existence.
I can see that marrige and children and the LDS family focus coming out of the drive to go to the Temple and be endowed. Then we teach and focus more on temples as everyone's goal. Then we hammer it into the heads of youth as they grow up....
...and I can see how that focus, while good and well-intentioned...misses the mark of the real plan of salvation for everyone and everyone's circumstances.
And because of that, we have tensions today. If it was all truth and clear...there wouldn't be tension. But as we learn more, we may realize that past emphasis on something like "marriage and having children" is PART of the plan, but perhaps misunderstood if we think it is THE KEY component of the plan.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
I'm not saying how the gospel truly is. I'm saying how GA act like it is. Their actions are very telling what they think key is. I'm with you but they sure are not.
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Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
That's a false equivalency because if so, the church would oppose marriages among the infertile or among older people who can no longer procreate. Plain and simple, this is a cultural relic from an era in which homosexuality was viewed as deviant behavior that was purely motivated by lust and promiscuity. The church lost the battle not when gay marriage became legal but when gay adoption became so pervasive. And it is. If they had been ahead of that curve, they would have been strongly encouraging hetero couples to adopt the "least desirable" cases (older kids and those with disabilities or a background of abuse). That's where the gay community really stepped up. And God bless them for it.Plan of salvation key component is marriage between a man and a woman and have spirit children. That's one of the cornerstones of Mormon doctrine. Gay marriage goes completely against that very cornerstone idea of the plan of salvation. You can't have spirit child if same sex couples. (Maybe spirit baby adoption?) That's why the church views same sex marriage as sin that's worst than having sex before marriage and comparable to murder.
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Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
The promise to the infertile is often, you will be able to have children after the resurrection. I imagine that extends to the older couples as well, once you get your perfected body - get busy and start having babies! It's the hope of infertile, one day...
Meanwhile the homosexual couple doesn't even have that hope. They get their perfected bodies, and then what? That's the main thrust (had to) of the argument against SSM. Some people can't conceptualize an afterlife that isn't being a baby factory. If something doesn't lead to that one outcome it must be against god's plan.
I'm not defending that argument but I hear it time and time again.
Meanwhile the homosexual couple doesn't even have that hope. They get their perfected bodies, and then what? That's the main thrust (had to) of the argument against SSM. Some people can't conceptualize an afterlife that isn't being a baby factory. If something doesn't lead to that one outcome it must be against god's plan.
I'm not defending that argument but I hear it time and time again.
I kept a diary right after I was born. Day 1: Tired from the move. Day 2: Everyone thinks I'm an idiot.
— Steven Wright
— Steven Wright
Re: Duty Bound to Reject It!
If no sexual expression exists in the next life, it would explain some of the doctrines I've struggled with. Sexuality, if seen as a completely earthly phenomena, would not be considered important in the next life; hence, to prepare for the next life, moving toward spirituality and celibacy would be at least an undercurrent, and at best, preached outright. I personally have felt it as a pretty strong undercurrent.Old-Timer wrote:Seeing the creation of spirits as completely non-sexual changes the dynamic radically. For me, it solves many issues and allows Mormon theology to be incredibly expansive.
That is the core change I would like to see, but I'm not holding my breath - even though eternal sexual reproduction makes absolutely no sense, imo.
And, I think its very sad.