Search found 465 matches

by Reuben
21 Dec 2018, 18:43
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Excommunication hurts membership in long run?
Replies: 14
Views: 731

Re: Excommunication hurts membership in long run?

I'm with OON on this. For me, the first red flag was that the authors interpreted "troubled" as meaning "bad for retention."

I'm not sure they were intentionally manipulating anyone, though. It's very easy to write leading questions simply by writing from your own point of view.
by Reuben
20 Dec 2018, 11:35
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(
Replies: 121
Views: 7862

Re: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(

One of the defenses that was put forward about the recording was that Bill did wrong but then took ownership of his action - while the church seldom admits wrongdoing. This report from this MS interview sounds cagey or evasive to me. Bill may or may not have recorded anything. Bill may or may not h...
by Reuben
16 Dec 2018, 04:09
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(
Replies: 121
Views: 7862

Re: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(

I can grant the possibility that BIll truly thought the high counselor was validating and agreeing with him. I have to believe it is only a slight possibility, since Bill understands the process from previous experience. If he truly believes that, it points to a degree of delusion, frankly, but all...
by Reuben
15 Dec 2018, 05:48
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(
Replies: 121
Views: 7862

Re: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(

Curt, I think your comment is addressed to me, but I'm not sure. If so, I apologize. This human stuff is tricky. I perceive more meaning as being between the lines than most people do. I can make this implicit stuff explicit more accurately in person, where I can observe and ask questions. I saw som...
by Reuben
13 Dec 2018, 22:47
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(
Replies: 121
Views: 7862

Re: Bill Reel about to get excommunicated? >:-(

I think Curt's argument for Bill's wrongdoing goes like this. The outcome was going to be excommunication. Bill would make sure it was. So he had a few choices: 1. Don't sign, don't attend, and be excommunicated. 2. Sign, attend, don't record, and be excommunicated. 3. Sign, attend, record, and be e...
by Reuben
10 Dec 2018, 16:18
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation
Replies: 23
Views: 1178

Re: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation

I simply will say individual experiences and perspectives can be very different. In that light, I will say that I have heard Elder Holland preach reconciliation by leaders on more than one occasion. If I made a list of the current top leadership and the likelihood of each individual giving such a t...
by Reuben
10 Dec 2018, 12:03
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation
Replies: 23
Views: 1178

Re: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation

I think of both forgiving and reconciling as ideally involving both parties. Forgiving can in principle always be done by one party without the other, but can be really hard in practice, and maybe should be delayed sometimes. (If it would make you let your guard down around a predator, then get some...
by Reuben
09 Dec 2018, 19:19
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation
Replies: 23
Views: 1178

Re: Elder Holland Talk on Reconciliation

The church never reconciles with anyone. It waits for them to do it, presumably on its terms. If they don't, they're in the wrong. Trust is a bundle of expectations. It usually goes like this: I trust you because I expect (based on experience, a good recommendation, etc.) that you'll deal honestly w...
by Reuben
18 Nov 2018, 19:18
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: I'm going to jail!
Replies: 35
Views: 2192

Re: I'm going to jail!

Awesome!

I think the people you'll serve will need your left-wing heresies. You can teach them about a radically inclusive and forgiving Jesus without having to struggle to find him first.
by Reuben
14 Nov 2018, 01:43
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: End of World War I
Replies: 14
Views: 693

Re: End of World War I

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: